Nicol Bolas incoming?

Azerack

So we play against him in the three Training missions for HOU. And while I also notice that we play Samut, I'm more wondering how soon until that tri-color Planeswalker "God" becomes available...

ElfNeedsFood

He'll be the guy you have to fight in 3.3 in nodes of no Cast Out. 

Tilwin90

Let's hope not! The only way I could see a triple-colored planeswalker balanced at this point is some serious gem matching handicap and deck building restriction (such as 4/3/3). And even so it might end up being too crazy powerful.

arNero

ElfNeedsFood said:

He'll be the guy you have to fight in 3.3 in nodes of no Cast Out. 

Oh, yeah, this is what I'm most worried about, and knowing Hibernum, pretty sure this will be the case even if I haven't even seen the thing.

ElfNeedsFood

[arNero] said:

ElfNeedsFood said:

He'll be the guy you have to fight in 3.3 in nodes of no Cast Out. 

Oh, yeah, this is what I'm most worried about, and knowing Hibernum, pretty sure this will be the case even if I haven't even seen the thing.

How does "Return of the God Pharoh" not end in a fight against Bolas?  

Matthew

He's not in this most recent update. If you go to the Planeswalkers page and click the "Show all" box on the bottom right, it will show every Planeswalker who has either already been up for purchase, or who will be coming in the near future.

My guess is since he's not showing up there, that means he'll just be a PvE end boss, and that's all we'll see from him.

DuskPaladin

Seriously, guys, what would be so incredibly overpowered that would justify not including Nicol Bolas, MTG's most iconic super villain, as a playable planeswalker? Hour of Devastation is HIS set.

Could you at least provide some kind of proof, like build the craziest Blue-Black-Red deck that you can come up with that you couldn't already do with only Sarkhan, Tezz2 or Saheeli? The 10-card limit is a serious restriction. Would that deck be stronger than a cycle deck or a Deploy/Pig/Olivia deck of old?

hawkyh1

DuskPaladin said:

Seriously, guys, what would be so incredibly overpowered that would justify not including Nicol Bolas, MTG's most iconic super villain, as a playable planeswalker? Hour of Devastation is HIS set.

Could you at least provide some kind of proof, like build the craziest Blue-Black-Red deck that you can come up with that you couldn't already do with only Sarkhan, Tezz2 or Saheeli? The 10-card limit is a serious restriction. Would that deck be stronger than a cycle deck or a Deploy/Pig/Olivia deck of old?

the cartouches alone for those 3 colours gives your
first creature haste, flying and lifelink(just like olivia).
it also solves tezz2's biggest drawback, no support
destruction. a lot of work is required to balance that
one.
(would be pretty cool to have a dragon planeswalker
though)

HH

DuskPaladin

Olivia is good because she is all those cards and much more, and she can win games her own. Having those three cards in hand with no creatures would be really awkward. Once again, the 10-card limit is no joke. I can't think of any serious deck playing 2 of the cartouche, much less all 3 or them. 

It really seems to me to be an irrational fear or 3-color Planeswalker. We would have so much more fun without such fears.

ROYGBV00

Just make Nicol Bolas have -1 mana gains (so net of 2 mana per gem pop), fully maxed out.  This in itself should limit and scare off using the more costly cards in a tri-color deck.  

Basically, you'd have to max him out to 60, just so to get the net -1 mana loss on the colors.

His gameplan would then have to resort to trying to cascade more often to get even 4 mana per turn with one cascade.

Having neutral/no bonuses to mana gain (3-mana) per pop would net too much mana for some of the cheaper and stronger cards.

Mana-ramp cards like Baral (blue) would then have to wait until at least Turn 2 if they're lucky with cascades to be on the field.  Turn 4 at worst...by then, it should give the AI time to find a counter/kill spell to answer a mana-ramp threat like Baral.

This should stunt a bit of his mana gain each turn, even with cascades.  Koth was nigh-useless before his buff way back when...

Blue-Black-Red are probably the three most powerful colors in MtGPQ, so stunting mana gain would have to balance it out.

Laeuftbeidir

DuskPaladin said:

I can't think of any serious deck playing 2 of the cartouche, much less all 3 or them.

Then you probably never saw a 10/10 first strike lifelink bomat courrier in a sorin deck (just to drop.. Well.. The only example why I'd use two cartouches).
Three colors would be a bomb, but as long as green is not included (the only color were only one or two cards could change the deck in a dramatic way) , the problem is not too big - 10 cards, that's it. I personally don't think we'll get him, it'd be fun to play him, but I'm okay with both options.

shteev

DuskPaladin said:

Seriously, guys, what would be so incredibly overpowered that would justify not including Nicol Bolas, MTG's most iconic super villain, as a playable planeswalker? Hour of Devastation is HIS set.

Could you at least provide some kind of proof, like build the craziest Blue-Black-Red deck that you can come up with that you couldn't already do with only Sarkhan, Tezz2 or Saheeli? The 10-card limit is a serious restriction. Would that deck be stronger than a cycle deck or a Deploy/Pig/Olivia deck of old?

Only 9% of those who voted here thing cycling doesn't need a nerf (God alone knows what the further 9% who voted for the forum mandated 'neutral option' think).

Is your stance now that *all* power creep is OK, because people will get bored of it?

wereotter

So here's a thought.... IF he is coming, we can already see one of his handicaps. Samut level one starts with 45 life, Bolas only has 20. So having low health in exchange for multiple colors might make him more balanced.

However.... he also has no abilities listed if you tap on his picture whereas in the Amonkhet training, Liliana did have abilities listed and is a recruitable planeswalker. So either they're trying to keep that a surprise for later, or he's just not being added at all apart from training mode.

span_argoman

DuskPaladin said:

Seriously, guys, what would be so incredibly overpowered that would justify not including Nicol Bolas, MTG's most iconic super villain, as a playable planeswalker? Hour of Devastation is HIS set.

Could you at least provide some kind of proof, like build the craziest Blue-Black-Red deck that you can come up with that you couldn't already do with only Sarkhan, Tezz2 or Saheeli? The 10-card limit is a serious restriction. Would that deck be stronger than a cycle deck or a Deploy/Pig/Olivia deck of old?

I see a chance for theorycrafting!

Standard #1
Combat Celebrant
Lightning Runner
Noxious Gearhulk
Omniscience
No Mercy
Black Vise
Aggravated Assault
Dark Ritual
Reason
Pull from Tomorrow

Standard #2
Lightning Runner
Combat Celebrant
Territorial Gorger
Dynavolt Tower
Era of Innovation
Gonti's Aether Heart
Aether Hub
No Mercy
Dark Ritual
Reason

Legacy #1 (control)
Olivia, Mobilized for War
Drowner of Hope
Startled Awake
Thopter Spy Network
Black Vise
Aggravated Assault
No Mercy
Dark Ritual
Reason
Pull from Tomorrow

Legacy #2 (aggro)
Olivia, Mobilized for War
Decimator of the Provinces
Startled Awake
Combat Celebrant
Black Vise
Fevered Visions
Aggravated Assault
No Mercy
Dark Ritual
Reason

wereotter

These examples rely on masterpieces in order to make them seem ridiculous, but you could make an already broken mechanic even more OP with adding three colors.

Faith of the Devoted

New Perspectives
Deem Worthy
Violent Impact
Razaketh's Rite
Drake Haven
Floodwaters
Vizier of Tumbling Sands
Stir the Sands
Sweltering Suns

Now not only do you have your gross cycling deck, but cycling cards can build up creature removal, you have support removal if you need it and direct damage when you cycle.

madwren

Seeing Startled Awake next to Olivia and Pig made me shiver.