Hour of Devastation Card Gallery *Updated (8/18/17)

2

Comments

  • Gunmix25Gunmix25 Posts: 1,348 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    a cycle grief deck would mostly target those players
    that usually have weaker card collections.

    HH
    I was thinking more along the lines of anti-cycle grief builds utilizing solemnity. These builds used by the AI can be devastating towards players of all types using Cycle to win. Can't create a 50/50 drake in a turn if the AI has Solemnity out. Or even cycle for a anti support card. I personally think that if used correctly, this card will  be huge in changing the outcome of rankings in events. No more easy wins as they say. 
  • ElfNeedsFoodElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    hawkyh1 said:
    a cycle grief deck would mostly target those players
    that usually have weaker card collections.

    HH
    My thoughts are the AI cycle grief deck will likely be on node 3 of the next weekend PvE event. In this way, the devs are only targeting those with weaker collections that were "playing up"' significantly in ToZ because cycling let them. 
  • ZW2007-ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    The problem with Omniscience + Panharmonicon shouldn't really be a problem at all since it would cause an infinite, unbreakable loop; the kind that you can never get out of once it's started. Now I'm sure a deck could be built that could still manage to abuse this and win through that loop but it seems too big of a risk. Time will tell though and if it becomes an issue, those three people that got Omniscience and abused it with Panharmonicon will only get to enjoy abusing it for about three months before the devs fix the problem.
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    Gunmix25 said:
    hawkyh1 said:
    a cycle grief deck would mostly target those players
    that usually have weaker card collections.

    HH
    I was thinking more along the lines of anti-cycle grief builds utilizing solemnity. These builds used by the AI can be devastating towards players of all types using Cycle to win. Can't create a 50/50 drake in a turn if the AI has Solemnity out. Or even cycle for a anti support card. I personally think that if used correctly, this card will  be huge in changing the outcome of rankings in events. No more easy wins as they say. 

    I meant to say a deck that causes grief to opposing cycle
    decks.

    HH
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    They might want to fix the subtype for Avatar of Woe before the release.

    Also Omniscience + Panharmonicon as the only supports in the deck = infinite loop

    won't that depend on how many shields omniscience
    has?

    HH
  • span_argomanspan_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    hawkyh1 said:
    They might want to fix the subtype for Avatar of Woe before the release.

    Also Omniscience + Panharmonicon as the only supports in the deck = infinite loop

    won't that depend on how many shields omniscience
    has?

    HH

    Partly, yes. If there are too many non-support cards in hand after Omniscience is cast then the infinite loop may not occur if Omniscience has too little shields.

    The AI tends to cast cards in the order of Creatures -> Supports -> Spells. So if the next card in hand is Panharmonicon then it could very likely trigger the infinite loop.

    Deploy the Gatewatch is 23 mana for fetching and casting 3 creatures from your deck. I'm guessing that Omniscience as a Masterpiece at 17 mana will have at least 3-4 shields.

    So let's assume Omniscience has 3 shields with a hand of only Omniscience and Panharmonicon, ie. our best case scenario.
    OM is cast. OM(3 shields)
    Pan is cast for free. OM(2) Pan(4) Support fetched to hand
    If the fetched support is OM: OM(5) Pan(3)
    If the fetched support is Pan: OM (1) Pan (7), 1 more chance to fetch OM

    From this example, you have 2 chances to fetch Omniscience as the next support card from Panharmonicon firing its ability. As the only 2 supports in your deck it's a 50-50 chance, so the odds are good. And it'll snowball from there as Panharmonicon helps you to keep fetching extra cards whereas Omniscience casts them for free and keeps building its shields.

    On the other hand with 1 additional non-support card in hand (which isn't Whir of Invention ;) ), you get only 1 chance to cast a free copy of Omniscience since the free casts become Panharmonicon -> Non-support card -> Card fetched by the casting of Panharmonicon -> Fetched non-support -> Fetched support -> ...

    That gives you an average of 1 Omniscience in 4 cards which will not be sustainable for an infinite loop if Omniscience only has 3 shields. It will need 4 shields to sustain this loop. But when the number of shields is only equal to the average number of cards fetched and cast before an Omniscience appears, it's a fragile loop. So I guess at 3 shields it actually isn't that bad.

    But think about how the AI plays a deck with Omniscience and Panharmonicon as the only supports. After creatures it starts trying to cast Panharmonicon or Omniscience. Once Panharmonicon enters the field it fetches a support to your hand. The next card the AI chooses to charge will be a creature or a support.

    If an Omniscience then gets cast we can assume that there were no more creatures in hand* and there will likely be a series of supports** that will get cast next, so your proportion of supports in hand is likely to be higher than 1-1. A ratio of 2 supports to 1 non-support will allow for Omniscience to be cast on average once every 3 cards which supports a fragile loop at 3 shields.

    *or a 4th or more creature which cannot be summoned to the battlefield due to lack of space
    **or at least one from Panharmonicon's initial fetch

    As a bonus, Whir of Invention helps tip the balance slightly. It adds a support summon on a non-support fetch. So you've a deck in Standard that could form an infinite loop.

    And the deck is playable from a human perspective because you can order your cards to avoid the infinite loop. Whir of Invention and Panharmonicon to try to fetch Omniscience to cast free stuff is also perfectly legit.

    Tl;dr Omniscience at 3 shields makes it hard to trigger an infinite loop with only Panharmonicon. Omniscience at 4+ shields with Panharmonicon and Whir of Invention makes an infinite loop much more likely.
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2017
    I don't own it but doesn't panharmonicon only fetches
    support other than itself? ie cast omniscience and it
    will only fetch another copy of omniscience if it's the
    only other support available?
    if deploy is fetch 3 for 23 mana then I think omniscience
    is at most 3 shields for 17 mana(if it's balanced)?

    HH
  • James13James13 Posts: 663 Critical Contributor
    It'll be hard for the AI to loop it if at all.  It's more likely to have other cards in hand to eat the free casts before the drawn ones.
  • span_argomanspan_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    hawkyh1 said:
    I don't own it but doesn't panharmonicon only fetches
    support other than itself? ie cast omniscience and it
    will only fetch another copy of omniscience if it's the
    only other support available?
    if deploy is fetch 3 for 23 mana then I think omniscience
    is at most 3 shields for 17 mana(if it's balanced)?

    HH

    Panharmonicon can fetch itself. It just fetches the next card in your library of the same type as the card just cast.

    On 'balance', Omniscience is a Masterpiece vs Deploy being a Mythic. Deploy has an additional fetch 3 cards function which Omniscience does not have.

    As an additional card for comparison, Dark Ritual as a single free cast enabler costs 7 mana. My guess is at least 3 shields. 4 is possible considering the power creep in HOU shown by some of the other cards. Any less would make it not all that great a Masterpiece.
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    New Hour of Devastation cards are available in-game!
  • ElfNeedsFoodElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    @Brigby - it seems the new cards are no longer available and have not yet merged into the main set. 
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @ElfNeedsFood
    Are you saying that you are unable to see the cards when you search for them, or that they aren't in the HOU booster packs?
  • ElfNeedsFoodElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    @Brigby They are no longer in the HOU booster packs. 
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @ElfNeedsFood
    Hmm I see. Ok. Thanks for notifying us of this occurrence! I'll pass this news along to the rest of the team
  • speakupaskanswerspeakupaskanswer Posts: 306 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:
    @ElfNeedsFood
    Hmm I see. Ok. Thanks for notifying us of this occurrence! I'll pass this news along to the rest of the team
    No news on this? 
  • ElfNeedsFoodElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Brigby said:
    @ElfNeedsFood
    Hmm I see. Ok. Thanks for notifying us of this occurrence! I'll pass this news along to the rest of the team
    No news on this? 
    I'm still not seeing the new cards. I'm hoping that the Thursday store rotation takes care of it. 
  • ElfNeedsFoodElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Brigby said:
    @ElfNeedsFood
    Hmm I see. Ok. Thanks for notifying us of this occurrence! I'll pass this news along to the rest of the team
    No news on this? 
    I'm still not seeing the new cards. I'm hoping that the Thursday store rotation takes care of it. 
    @Brigby The new cards still do not appear to be in the booster packs.
  • rafalelerafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    In vault there are only 35 uncommon cards, I have 40 of my own
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. The team is aware of this issue, and we are currently working to alleviate this issue.
  • speakupaskanswerspeakupaskanswer Posts: 306 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:
    Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. The team is aware of this issue, and we are currently working to alleviate this issue.
    Any info on whether currently hoarded packs will include the new cards once the issue is fixed?
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