How I got past the vaulting ISO crunch

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  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    n25philly said:
    broll said:
    MissChinch said:
    broll said:
    irwando said:
    broll said:
    Not sure why so many people get mad or upset about vaulting (other than need for instant gratification I guess).  Hoarding is one of the most powerful tools in the game for progressing your roster and not wasting resources.


    Sure, but is it fun? Since vaulting I am overall having much less fun:
    • I always used all of my tokens & CP when I got them and most of the time I got a cover I could use. Now I'm hoarding them knowing a lot of the time they'll be useless until I have most/all of the latest 12 champed.
    • Many of my favorite / best heroes are now rarely if at all leveled. Bonus Heroes sure, but how often do you actually get one?
    • I feel like I am now forced to champion characters I don't want to (Mordo, AV, Riri...) if I want to have the fun of opening tokens/CP and not waste them, or I have to wait months and months for them to cycle out.
    Once again D3 has designed a system where the best thing to do is to do nothing. The best way to manage your tokens/not waste resources? Don't use them, hoard. It is the same as my major problem with PvP - the best way to advance is to spend most of the time not playing (shielding) and to only play in little bits.

    The fun of the game is playing and seeing what rewards I get, and the new design continues to take that away from me.
    Depends on what fun is to you I guess.  I get a ton of enjoyment out of the planning and optimizing ways to use my resources.  But I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

    I can agree with that, to the point where devising an optimal strategy/build/rotation for a game is often more fun than executing it...  WoW got to the point where once my spreadsheet was done and I was sure I'd hit on the optimal set of equipment/skills and rotation actually playing the game was pretty boring...

    Yeah that's kinda where I am too.  The planning / collecting (collecting got a major nerf in IMO with vaulting) are what make the game most fun for me.  If/when I get to a point where I've champed all characters currently out I could see losing interest very quickly.  Especially since vaulting makes it much easier to keep pace once you reach that (but harder to get there in the first place, which seems backwards to me...)
    It's a good point.  Last year when I was focused on building up and champing the 3*'s a had a spreadsheet with all of their levels, how much iso to level/champ them, etc.  Vaulting hit right before I finished up the 3's that were present at the time.  I was just starting to put together another spreadsheet for the 4*'s and I now look at it and go "what's the point?" Since it apparently is supposed to only have 12 names on it.  Doing all of that tracking, planning, adjusting, etc was a lot of the fun.  Another fun element taken away....

    I would argue that tracking is even more important now than then.  My spreadsheet includes every character at every rarity level.  It includes stuff like what their champ levels are (important for prioritizing the right 3* champ levels to feed your vaulted 4*s) and numbers of covers (useful for know who to favorite or not favorite)
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    broll said:

    I would argue that tracking is even more important now than then.  My spreadsheet includes every character at every rarity level.  It includes stuff like what their champ levels are (important for prioritizing the right 3* champ levels to feed your vaulted 4*s) and numbers of covers (useful for know who to favorite or not favorite)

    Tracking and moreso planning in the vaulted world of 4*s is at least initially interesting, but unfortunately its slow moving once you get the plan in place.


    I first made the assumption that I would not let a token 12 4* retire without getting 13 covers (this is pretty easy given my playtime)


    I then made a list of all the retired 4*s that were not at 13 covers. 

    - Sorted out any that did not have 5 covers in any color and favorite'd them

    - Sorted out the heroes with 5's in two colors, these are the high risk heroes

    - Of the remaining I sorted out heroes with less than 3 covers in 2 colors - these are the medium-high risk heroes

    - Sorted out heroes with less than 3 covers in 1 color - these are the medium risk heroes

    - The remaining heroes are all either 5/3/3 or 5/4/3 - these are the low risk heroes


    Then I listed all my 3* champions and determined if there were any champ reward covers of a usable color for any of my non-favorite'd 4*s.  I favorite the 3* that was closest to rewarding me a usable cover (and made a note of the next few in line)


    When the HfH store turned over daily making a list of covers to target next was useful, now its really not.


    I then had a clear priority tier for trying to buy covers in store vaults, high risk > medium-high risk > medium risk > low risk.  I take into account the closeness of bonus covers from 3*s in determining what to do, and I resort any heroes that receive covers.


    This seemed to suggest it was really going to be ISO, not covers that'll dictate how fast I cover retired 4*s, likely because I am lucky enough to have most 4*s in the 9-13 cover range.


  • irwando
    irwando Posts: 263 Mover and Shaker
    MissChinch said:
    broll said:
    irwando said:
    broll said:
    Not sure why so many people get mad or upset about vaulting (other than need for instant gratification I guess).  Hoarding is one of the most powerful tools in the game for progressing your roster and not wasting resources.


    Sure, but is it fun? Since vaulting I am overall having much less fun:
    • I always used all of my tokens & CP when I got them and most of the time I got a cover I could use. Now I'm hoarding them knowing a lot of the time they'll be useless until I have most/all of the latest 12 champed.
    • Many of my favorite / best heroes are now rarely if at all leveled. Bonus Heroes sure, but how often do you actually get one?
    • I feel like I am now forced to champion characters I don't want to (Mordo, AV, Riri...) if I want to have the fun of opening tokens/CP and not waste them, or I have to wait months and months for them to cycle out.
    Once again D3 has designed a system where the best thing to do is to do nothing. The best way to manage your tokens/not waste resources? Don't use them, hoard. It is the same as my major problem with PvP - the best way to advance is to spend most of the time not playing (shielding) and to only play in little bits.

    The fun of the game is playing and seeing what rewards I get, and the new design continues to take that away from me.
    Depends on what fun is to you I guess.  I get a ton of enjoyment out of the planning and optimizing ways to use my resources.  But I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

    I can agree with that, to the point where devising an optimal strategy/build/rotation for a game is often more fun than executing it...  WoW got to the point where once my spreadsheet was done and I was sure I'd hit on the optimal set of equipment/skills and rotation actually playing the game was pretty boring...
    Yep, this.  Planning it is an interesting exercise.  But the actual execution is slow and boring for me.

    I know some people enjoy it and don't mind the vaulting, but for *me* and anyone else who likes to play as I do, its awful.

    And I think this still holds true - the design of multiple aspects of the game is to spend a lot of time not doing anything if you want to maximize progress/resources - not opening tokens or spending CP, not playing PvP except for quick hops, not playing PvE except quick clears at the beginning and end of a sub.  

    As a result I find myself having much less fun and being much less competitive.  
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    I'm currently waiting for 5* Hawkeye to leave tokens, since I got him to 13 covers already and don't yet have the iso to champ 5*s.  Once new Spidey joins latest legends I'll pull until one of those three hits 13 covers and go back to hoarding again.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lists, spreadsheets, tracking, and horse track odds...I think I would delete the game before putting myself through all that misery lol. 
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    I'm stuck with ISO dept higher than ever before. I started hoarding and I hate everything about it. I recently champed Carol, making her my 5th 4* champ, but it costed me an arm and a leg. I'm at 5k ISO, with 3 2* waiting for ISO and 2 3* in similar spot. On top of that I have 3 fully covered latest 4* - Blade, Riri and Mordo. Blade can wait untill the end of season, but I have 2 utterly garbage characters that I don't want to champ, that will give me 1/6 chance of drawing dead covers from LTs.

    I'm slogging through Venom Bomb, and even with Carol, the fights are bloody annoying. I could swear that fights were designed to make player experience awfull. I will hit eventually the finall progression, just to get CP that I won't use and a cover, that I don't want, but need if I want to compete  in next PvE. Not to mention, that those quick character releases (and greed) are the only reason why that stinking pile of vaulting was dropped on us.

    What a great time to be MPQ player.

    PS: Best wishes to the person who decided that while vaulting is active, the boosted characters will be: 4 vaulted, 1 latest. If that isn't a spit in the face, then I don't know what is.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    smkspy said:
    Lists, spreadsheets, tracking, and horse track odds...I think I would delete the game before putting myself through all that misery lol. 
    Then, the problem is not MPQ, but rather that MPQ is not the game you wish it were. Pretty sure you'll find another game much more to your preferences if you look for it.
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    smkspy said:
    Lists, spreadsheets, tracking, and horse track odds...I think I would delete the game before putting myself through all that misery lol. 
    I think you'll find that the people who make spreadsheets for the game are people who like making spreadsheets.  Some of us like to track everything, figure out odds, etc and some don't. It's not misery if you enjoy it.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    MaskedMan said:
    And what happens when they revise the Character you bypassed and now he rocks?  LOL
    Exactly my problem with Carnage.
    I chucked away a bunch of covers for him over time because he sucked and I hated him. Stupid character designed to be fought, not used. Can't use him without a bunch of health packs.

    Oh but now he's awesome...and he's in the Shield Sim meta so my 188 Carnage is letting me down.
    Now I have to find the time and ISO to actually champ him. Especially with my 3* Doc Ock one cover away from giving me a free Carnage cover.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    Nepenthe said:
    smkspy said:
    Lists, spreadsheets, tracking, and horse track odds...I think I would delete the game before putting myself through all that misery lol. 
    I think you'll find that the people who make spreadsheets for the game are people who like making spreadsheets.  Some of us like to track everything, figure out odds, etc and some don't. It's not misery if you enjoy it.

    Just making a joke, man. Nothing to defend about it at all, but I forgot this board is completely devoid of humor.

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