PvP Unplayable After Drawing 5*? 3 Week Player

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  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
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    PerilousPeach said:

    Here is what my current roster looks like:

    44 character slots:

    • 5* Hawkeye lvl255, Red (Just pulled from 4* token)
    • 4* Captain Marvel, lvl70 ( 2 Black, 1 Yellow, 1 Green), 3 covers from the boss event
    • 4* Gwenpoole, lvl70 (1 Green)
    • 4* Sandman, lvl70 (1 Purple)
    • 20 3*s, all level 40.  Only a couple have 4 covers, most are 1-2 covers.
    • All 2*, with only two of them fully covered.  Highest level is 40. (emphasis mine - ZootSax)
    • 1*s fully covered, max level 40 with Iron Man, Jugg, and Hawkeye

    Honestly, rather than sell your Hawkeye, I'd look to maximize your 2*'s. 2* champions give solid rewards and your opponents with Level 94 2*'s and a 5* will be similar to what you're seeing now, but you'll have a much easier time winning.  If you start playing PVE more to get 3* covers and keep up with DDQ, your 2*'s will carry you pretty well until your 3*'s are ready.

    Unfortunately for you, red is probably Hawkeye's worst color to have a single cover for, but he's still a good meat shield.   If you don't like using him all the time, you'll probably be no worse off selling him, but if you like the character he shouldn't hurt you to have rostered once you level your team.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,655 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Hey PerilousPeach

    The guys in these forums know their stuff, I've lurked here and learned a lot. I'm way further down the food chain but experienced the issues you did upon starting out, although I was lucky enough to pull a yellow OML cover when my first 5* hit, so the pain was lessened due to that being a rare useful single 5* cover.

    Levelling your 2* is worth it, not least so they can complete the 2* missions in DDQ which grants you Iso and tokens daily and champ awards for more resources including 3* covers. Storm/Black Widow/Thor/Ares/Magneto are all solid 2* that can punch above their rank, Storm's stun & AOE and Widow's AP steal can undo stronger opponents.

    The fact you have all 2* rostered and a lot of 3* in 3 weeks shows you how fast the pace of the early transition can go now, that is fast progress already! I was stuck with a single cover She Hulk as my only 3* for ages and that was only as far back as January last year when I started playing. I remember lurking at these forums and feeling envious at the players with their Iron Fist's and Luke Cage combos which seemed like a lifetime away to obtain. The change in speed with which you can rack up 3* covers now is astonishing, thanks mostly to Elite tokens and Bonus Heroes. Once you have 3*, then PVP will open up but levelling 2* will only help in getting to that level.

    Just don't ask about the 4* transition...



  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    Sorry OP, my advice is to fight through it, avoid selling if possible.  Do what the folks above me have been advising and dump iso into one 2* at a time and get champ levels on em, they'll help with PvE. 


    PvP is just gonna be a pooshow for a while, even though that 5* should do insane match damage compared to what your roster normally puts out. 


    You could think about playing him with some cascade friendly teams, like pounding 2* marvels yellow.  5*s shine with cascades, really accentuates their crazy (comparatively) match damage.


    My advice to anyone starting out is to favorite strange on the 3* tier and no one else.  Ride his passive yellow out in PvE for a few months to build up your 3* tier then and only then think about pulling CP/LTs if you have roster spots open...

  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
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    Rhycar said:
    Sell the 5* and don't open any more Legendary tokens or CP until you are at least ready to max a 4*. It is brutal otherwise.
    That's a chicken and egg problem, since your odds of getting, let alone maxing a 4* are going to be abysmal without opening tokens. I fully cop to not playing competitively, but I do play a lot, and both T10 PVE and 900 points in PVP are incredibly strenuous goals if you're playing with a 3* roster.

    Back when 5* were first introduced, I managed to get a couple of early Phoenix covers and had some concern about how it would affect my scaling in return for not being terribly useful (and even after all this time, she's still level 255 at only eight covers). Some helpful folks here convinced me that it wouldn't be too much of an issue with a roster with at least a few 3* champions.  That's the benchmark I'd use for determining when to start making legendary/classic pulls.
  • PerilousPeach
    PerilousPeach Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
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    Decided to level a few 2* to 70 and did some of the Deadpool dailies.

    Then I went in to the current PvE event and noticed some much tougher opponents. Do those grow in difficulty after time?

    I cleared each node yesterday a few times until they stopped giving max points. Maybe healing every 1-3 fights as needed.

    This morning, barely got the first node. Second one had dudes 120+ (thought they were in the 60-70s yesterday?), so I had to use the 255 Hawkeye, and my powered up 3*. Those 2* can't do jack for me here.

    Ended up losing. Enemy drops a couple defense tiles and that awesome match damage gets you nowhere. Just a slow match 3 slog until death.

    Does upping your 2* make PvE harder?

    I'm seriously thinking I'll sell the 5* and seeing if it helps. Otherwise, it's peace out and take my time and money elsewhere.

    It's a shame, too. I was enjoying this a ton a few days ago. Managed to take down a level 150 boss during the event with three single cover 3* that I was initially attempting to lose so I could open those side nodes back open.  Also rolling through the PvE events trying out all the characters.

    Maybe I'll try to finish prologue stuff with 5* Hawkeye before selling, unless that's all messed up too.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    PerilousPeach said:
    Decided to level a few 2* to 70 and did some of the Deadpool dailies.

    Then I went in to the current PvE event and noticed some much tougher opponents. Do those grow in difficulty after time?

    I cleared each node yesterday a few times until they stopped giving max points. Maybe healing every 1-3 fights as needed.

    This morning, barely got the first node. Second one had dudes 120+ (thought they were in the 60-70s yesterday?), so I had to use the 255 Hawkeye, and my powered up 3*. Those 2* can't do jack for me here.

    Ended up losing. Enemy drops a couple defense tiles and that awesome match damage gets you nowhere. Just a slow match 3 slog until death.

    Does upping your 2* make PvE harder?

    I'm seriously thinking I'll sell the 5* and seeing if it helps. Otherwise, it's peace out and take my time and money elsewhere.

    It's a shame, too. I was enjoying this a ton a few days ago. Managed to take down a level 150 boss during the event with three single cover 3* that I was initially attempting to lose so I could open those side nodes back open.  Also rolling through the PvE events trying out all the characters.

    Maybe I'll try to finish prologue stuff with 5* Hawkeye before selling, unless that's all messed up too.

    PvP relies on the matchmaking system to pair you with like rosters (theres plenty of complaint about this) so improving your roster means you get to see and get seen by more mature rosters.


    PvE relies on roster based scaling to determine what enemies you face.  The algorithms are not known, but its heavily speculated that your top three highest level characters, before a boost, play a major role in determining how the game will scale up your PvE competition. 

    When I acquired my first 5* my scaling went through the roof (relative to what it used to be, I was a 3* player still accumulating 3* covers, with a few champs)  I've been told this is not as dramatic, but I've got no firsthand experience.  Leveling your 2*s shouldn't have had a big impact (did you check it after acquiring the 5*)


    At any rate that's how it works, getting a better roster will mean you see more difficult teams in PvP and your PvE enemies scale up in level higher.


    There is real reason for hope with your situation though, for two reasons:

     1 ) This is a temporary roster makeup for you, you're still acquiring covers, and those covers will quickly land you into 3* territory and out of 2->3 transition

     2 ) There have been two PvE runs where roster based scaling has been eliminated, this seems to be the pattern immediately preceding the release of a new mechanic, I expect roster based scaling to be on the way out...

  • byc
    byc Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
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    You've made the mistake of PLAYING THE GAME!

    As you have learned now, you should not be opening Legendary tokens at all for probably a year unless you pay to upgrade your roster, or play a ton to get it up yourself.

    I have never spent any $$$ on this game.  It took my about 1 year and a 1/2 before I was well into the 3* transition.  I play 2-5 hours a day.  So it'll take your about 2000 hours before you should start opening those tokens without them totally wrecking you.

    Welcome to the exciting world of Marvel Puzzle Quest!
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
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    PerilousPeach said:

    :snip:

    Talk about a buzz kill. Excited to play, buy the VIP, then finally get a 4* VIP token. Pull a 5*!

    And the recommendation here is to sell it.
    You are not the only one who walked into this. Many players, myself included, went there before. Some sell the 5* or carried the burden of having it roster. (I carried mine though)

    If you have a 'pokemon syndrome' like me, you can keep it. Although, I don't think you will be able to make much progress in cover him. (5Eye is leaving the token soon, once he is out, I don't think like there is a practical way to fully cover him.) He is going to stuck there at 1 cover forever.

    ps. Fun fact, a single cover 5* used to be considered as strong as a champ 4* in the old scaling/MMR calculation. The devs have addressed it, but I don't think it the problem is completely solved though.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Honestly, pvp is also one of those unwritten rules where you can't really make a dent at it u til you're in 3 star land. 

    Personally, I didn't start playing pvp seriously until I chanped my first 4. And even with 30+ champs it just isn't very much of a fun experience.

    Finish the prologue and focus on pve that's my advice.


    Now I want to go play the prologue again, best part of the game imo.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I had the same problem when I started too. I got OML yellow as my first 5* cover, now more useful especially since it was prenerf, but it hurt my scaling. I didn't sell any, I stopped playing PVP so much unfortunately. A year and a half later my roster had made some huge leaps and now I get to 900 no problem in PVP. Just keep him, keep playing, it will get better as your roster builds. Good luck and have fun!!
  • cpeyton3535
    cpeyton3535 Posts: 256 Mover and Shaker
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    Roland113 said:
    One recommendation, at the earlier stages, PvE is a lot more forgiving than PvP.  
    This.  

    I rode a 1/0/0 5* Thanos (lucky!) through PVE and DDQ in my first month.  PVP I just won a few of the easy matches that you get when the event first starts and then stopped for that event.  Still decent rewards just for showing up.

    Like a few have suggested, just see how it goes for a while before selling. I found having a couple of 5*s on my roster actually helped me when I first started out.  Just don't level them!
  • PerilousPeach
    PerilousPeach Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
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    Sold the 5* Hawkeye.

    Life is immediately better.

    Went from:

    Having to use the 5* Hawkeye + 4* Capt. Marvel/Sandman or 3* Iron Fist in every fight just to be able to win anything for the last two days

    to using (just this evening in PvP and PvE):

    1* Jugg, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Black Widow
    2* Ares, Daken, Storm, Thor, Wolverine, OBW, Capt Marvel
    3* Iron Fist, Deadpool, Cyclops, and Blade
    4* Capt Marvel, Sandman

    Current PvE nodes are still pretty high, since I cleared most of them with ONLY USING THE SAME 5* OVER AND OVER.  Scaling sucked.  I'm hoping the next PvE section will scale better with my roster now. 

    PvP nodes already normalized back to similarly leveled guys, such that I can actually choose who I want to play and see if it works or not.

    I've pulled hundreds and hundreds of tokens by now, and by far the best pull I got completely ruined the game for me so badly that I ended up deleting it.  This is all kinds of dumb for a game that's all about collecting comic book covers.
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
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    PerilousPeach said:

    :snip:

    Current PvE nodes are still pretty high, since I cleared most of them with ONLY USING THE SAME 5* OVER AND OVER.  Scaling sucked.  I'm hoping the next PvE section will scale better with my roster now. 

    :snip:
    PvE scalig is calculated once at the beginning of each sub. If you make a change midway, you won't see any change until the next sub.
  • MaskedMan
    MaskedMan Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
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    They have tried to fix the scaling a many times.  Usually it just makes things worse.  Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.
  • Huntah86
    Huntah86 Posts: 221 Tile Toppler
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    I've been through this exact situation.  My advice is to pay the 100ISO and keep boosts for whatever colors your 5* has.  I pulled an OML when I was in the 2* transitioning to 3* phase and the only way I could stay afloat was to do that (I even made the mistake of leveling him up to 270).  It took me a few months to get my roster fixed (should take you less time because 3* can rain from the sky if you play properly). 

    To answer your question about PVE scaleing, nodes get harder after each win stopping after the 4th clear. So if you cleared everything 4 times yesterday then they have increased in difficulty 4 times already and the last jump can be pretty substantial so that's why it's harder, not necessarily because you leveled up some 2*
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
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    PerilousPeach said:
    After a bunch of skips, I managed to find a few winnable fights.  Won the one mentioned above, and two others that had a powered up 1* and a level 122 3*.

    However, I still pretty much have to use that 5* Hawkeye to have a chance.  Going to try to see if that powered up 4* Sandman and my 2 cover 3* Iron Fist can beat anything.

    It just sucks that I'm limited to these top covers.  I guess I can try maxing out some of those 2*s to get them up there, but I hear it's a waste to use ISO on those 2*s.  I was saving it up anyways, as the ISO costs seemed like I could only do a few at the moment.

    Just read up on the whole 2-3* and 3-4* transitioning.  Ugh.

    Talk about a buzz kill. Excited to play, buy the VIP, then finally get a 4* VIP token. Pull a 5*!

    And the recommendation here is to sell it.
    And the (guesstimated) 99% of VIPs that pulled 4* are like "look at this lucky person complaining!" LOL! 
  • nitefox1337
    nitefox1337 Posts: 80 Match Maker
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    Dude, same. Funny part, Hawkeye was also my first 5*.

    It's weird, their system is not really in place. I used to be able to get to 575 easy before, now I can't.

    (More you invest in the game more you regress). And there are way more terrible aspects of PvP I dislike. (Ranted enough about those already).

    Fix: Stop investing, play PvE only. The game becomes really fun when it's casual.
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
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    Other fix: Create a personal vault for characters you've been lucky enough to pull but can't manage to use successfully yet. Set limits like you can't pull them out to use in a sub that's already been started (they remain locked out even if you pull them out in advance to use for PVP or the next PVE).

    If they institute SCL based scaling obviously the need for that goes away, but if they don't, that at least prevents players from sabotaging themselves by playing the game in what seems to be a normal manner. And with vaulting, it at least allows them to collect characters while they're in the tokens even if they're not ready for them yet.

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