Should Invincible Characters Be Immune To Instant Kill Effects?

DrDevilDinosaur
DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
edited July 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
For example, Gamora's instant kill doesn't affect Boss Ock while his Reactor is out. Her ability states that she "removes the tiles and downs the target" (no mention of damage). Ock's ability states that he "does not take damage".

Shouldn't he not be immune to instant kill effects (if that's what they truly are)? In the case of Gamora's deadliest woman, the animation still played and still removed all purple special tiles. (If Doc is immune, then I should get to keep my tiles at least.)

What do you think? Should invincible characters be immune to instant kill effects?

//Edited thread, with OP's permission, to closer resemble discussion, instead of bug report -Brigby
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Comments

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,050 Chairperson of the Boards
    I kinda agree. This happened to me too as the animation went off but Ock was still there. I just figured the devs didn't want me to win that way. 
  • Player1575
    Player1575 Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    Came to mention this + not being able to use gamoras blue at all.

    I realize the bosses can't be stunned, but why do I get a message saying I can't use the ability at all instead of letting me use it for the two tiles it generates and telling me the boss is immune instead of being stunned?
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    ***Closing this thread as there is another thread exactly like this one***
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Player1575 said:
    Came to mention this + not being able to use gamoras blue at all.

    I realize the bosses can't be stunned, but why do I get a message saying I can't use the ability at all instead of letting me use it for the two tiles it generates and telling me the boss is immune instead of being stunned?
    It doesn't generate 2 tiles. It stuns up to 2 enemies. Then creates 1 tile per stunned enemy. So in her eventual crash, it would only generate 1, as long as they can be stunned.

    Per the title question, I think Gamora's instakill still functions like a normal attack, just for all the damage. Gamora can down the target, but can't down a target she can't hit. I kinda think I feel like the same scenario would occur if you tried to Instakill Elektra with shadow step out, or any invisible or airborne character. I suspect they would survive her deadliest woman attack, and I'm ok with that. It would be cool if it were a true instakill tho.

  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    I think "insta-kill" is not the same with "deal a huge damage so that no one will survive". If a power is advertised as insta-kill or insta-win, it should do what it says no matter what. If you want that to fail on a boss, the boss can have a passive that says immune to insta-kill, etc.
  • FokaiHI
    FokaiHI Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker
    I used Chulk. If you hit Doc Ock's then tile with his punch, he took all the damage. If you had enough blue, he was done. 
  • Landale
    Landale Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
    FokaiHI said:
    I used Chulk. If you hit Doc Ock's then tile with his punch, he took all the damage. If you had enough blue, he was done. 

    This is how I got through it.  Cho, IM40, and GSBW.  Pump up green and blue, grab the odd purple and yellow - punch punch punch all day long.  The only bosses I had to "rush" were sandman and Carnage.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,700 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree with the poster who said they view powers like Gamora's insta-down as one that basically deals infinity damage. If a character can't take damage, they should be immune to this power. 
  • Infrared
    Infrared Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    Has anyone tried Deadpool's super whales on Boss Ock?

    And if Boss Venom tried to devour Boss Ock, who would prevail? Or what about a Boss Ock mirror match? Would the first countdown to resolve win? Or would the second one win because it was able to resist the first?
  • fanghoul
    fanghoul Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    I guess it should depend on what she does to other bosses. Can she insta-kill everyone except doc-oc? Then she should probably kill him too. If she can't kill bosses in general, that makes some sense to me, since it seems a little overpowered.
  • Chrono_Tata
    Chrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    I believe that in this game, instant kill powers actually translate code-wise into doing a ton of damage that no character should be able to survive. Actually I remember that back when 5-stars were originally released, there was a "bug" that Deadpool's super whales would not be able to down a fully levelled 5-star cause they had so much health.

    Anyway I think this is pretty reasonable. The devs probably think that "downing" clearly means inflicting enough damage on someone to down them, so any ability that negates all damage would stop a downing effect. Maybe it would be better if they reword it to something like "inflicts instant down damage" so it's clearer?
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    Cross-reference this with the behaviour of Spider-Woman's black: she can dodge supposed "insta-kill" moves like the Maggia Don's Trap. I haven't tested this against every possible insta-kill move, though.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chrono_Tata said:
    I believe that in this game, instant kill powers actually translate code-wise into doing a ton of damage that no character should be able to survive. Actually I remember that back when 5-stars were originally released, there was a "bug" that Deadpool's super whales would not be able to down a fully levelled 5-star cause they had so much health.

    Anyway I think this is pretty reasonable. The devs probably think that "downing" clearly means inflicting enough damage on someone to down them, so any ability that negates all damage would stop a downing effect. Maybe it would be better if they reword it to something like "inflicts instant down damage" so it's clearer?
    I don't think this is true with Ocks power at least.  I played on a low level alt account and lost to Ock and after loosing my characters all had the same health (near full) that they did when the move triggered.  If it was coded as a bunch of damage they would have all 3 been dead (and honestly probably should have been, but hey no health pack waste :D )
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,157 Chairperson of the Boards
    For what it's worth, I just found out yesterday that Elektra's Shadow Step prevents her from being killed with Deadpool's DROP ALL THE WHALES! Not really an "Invincible" character, so much as it prevents all damage...but I was under the impression that the Mega-Whale drop was an auto-win.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    sambrookjm said:
    For what it's worth, I just found out yesterday that Elektra's Shadow Step prevents her from being killed with Deadpool's DROP ALL THE WHALES! Not really an "Invincible" character, so much as it prevents all damage...but I was under the impression that the Mega-Whale drop was an auto-win.
    I think it was determined that certain bosses (galactus etc) can survive a whale drop at high-champed 5* scaling as well. It's not an insta-win, it just does like 100k damage or something.
  • Lampo
    Lampo Posts: 121 Tile Toppler
    "Insta-kill" and "really really a lot of damage" are different, so people immune to damage should still die by insta-kill.
    Maybe we'll have a "can't be insta-killed" character one day :)
  • Chrono_Tata
    Chrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Chrono_Tata said:
    I believe that in this game, instant kill powers actually translate code-wise into doing a ton of damage that no character should be able to survive. Actually I remember that back when 5-stars were originally released, there was a "bug" that Deadpool's super whales would not be able to down a fully levelled 5-star cause they had so much health.

    Anyway I think this is pretty reasonable. The devs probably think that "downing" clearly means inflicting enough damage on someone to down them, so any ability that negates all damage would stop a downing effect. Maybe it would be better if they reword it to something like "inflicts instant down damage" so it's clearer?
    I don't think this is true with Ocks power at least.  I played on a low level alt account and lost to Ock and after loosing my characters all had the same health (near full) that they did when the move triggered.  If it was coded as a bunch of damage they would have all 3 been dead (and honestly probably should have been, but hey no health pack waste :D )
    I think that's because Doc Ock's ability actually says "win the battle", rather than "downing" any character. It basically just triggers the win condition for the user, and doesn't have any modification effect to anyone's health.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chrono_Tata said:
    broll said:
    Chrono_Tata said:
    I believe that in this game, instant kill powers actually translate code-wise into doing a ton of damage that no character should be able to survive. Actually I remember that back when 5-stars were originally released, there was a "bug" that Deadpool's super whales would not be able to down a fully levelled 5-star cause they had so much health.

    Anyway I think this is pretty reasonable. The devs probably think that "downing" clearly means inflicting enough damage on someone to down them, so any ability that negates all damage would stop a downing effect. Maybe it would be better if they reword it to something like "inflicts instant down damage" so it's clearer?
    I don't think this is true with Ocks power at least.  I played on a low level alt account and lost to Ock and after loosing my characters all had the same health (near full) that they did when the move triggered.  If it was coded as a bunch of damage they would have all 3 been dead (and honestly probably should have been, but hey no health pack waste :D )
    I think that's because Doc Ock's ability actually says "win the battle", rather than "downing" any character. It basically just triggers the win condition for the user, and doesn't have any modification effect to anyone's health.
    Except it doesn't, because wave battles.

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