Please Fix PvP...

This game has been out for a while and the community has been asking for this part to be refactored.  We already know it is beating a dead horse, but are there going to be improvements in this area?

1. MMR and competitiveness
2. Losing major points, aka getting bombed
3. Improving or making the rewards more obtainable

Comments

  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 584 Critical Contributor
    Build your roster then come back when it's competitive. MMR is your friend, not your enemy.
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    Yep, nothing like trying to climb to whatever your goal is only to get hammered down a couple hundred points. That is not fun (hint: games are supposed to be fun). But it has been that way for almost 4 years, so why should anyone expect it to change?
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,191 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah I wish they would fix it, but they can't even figure out how to properly scale pve, so I doubt they can fix pvp without breaking it even more. 
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,516 Chairperson of the Boards
    People act like this is the only game they've ever seen this in. It used to aggravate me until I played three other games exactly like it.

    I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure it's working exactly the way they want it to.
  • BlackIC
    BlackIC Posts: 65 Match Maker
    All,
    This is good feedback! Thanks for chiming in. The purpose of this is hopefully get a response from D3 on any near future plans in regards to PvP. It has been 4 years and these items are the most common things the community would like to see refactored / updated.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    Orion said:
    Rod5 said:
    Build your roster then come back when it's competitive. MMR is your friend, not your enemy.
    Yeah, no.  MMR hates you and your family. It's definitely not your friend. When you're a 3* player, it gives you 4* teams. When you're a 4* player, it gives you 5* teams. When you're a 5* player, it gives you better 5* teams to fight.  It doesn't matter how good your roster is, the MMR always matches you up with someone better.
    I don't mean to pick on you, but you're the person to say it in this thread so I'm quoting it here...

    People say this above like orion said, yet they also say things like "I can't reach 900 with my 4* because I keep getting destroyed by 5* teams I can't even retaliate against". So, which is it? Are you constantly paired against only teams harder than your own, in which case you aren't likely to get beaten down by huge rosters, or do you get beat down by huge rosters after climbing on teams that are slightly weaker than yours?

    In my experience, the matchmaking is pretty terrible but it may be doing a pretty good job overall (i.e. it "works" but I wish it worked a little differently). I generally see opponents with similarly leveled 5* within a certain point range of my own. For instance, my champed 5* are around 455, so I see enemies usually with 2 champed 5* in the 450 to 460 range. Occasionally after enough skips I might find a team that is using a highly champed 4* instead of a second 5* or a second 5* that's at 420 or 435. My two biggest complaints are ones often heard here...I often get stuck in "q hell", meaning no matter how many times I hit the skip button I'm faced with the same ~6 targets, and often there aren't any worth hitting (why would I want to hit a similar roster for 40 points when they can easily take those points back just a few minutes later?). I also don't understand why the arbitrary seeming cutoff for rosters that are "too hard" for me. Sure I may not want to take on someone with 500+ leveled 5*, but below that I think I stand a pretty good chance at winning, but I am blocked off from finding these teams unless I am already at 800+ points. 

    Last I would caution anyone who wants sweeping changes to PvP matchmaking to think hard about how it will effect you. Making things easier on yourself means its easier on everyone else too. If you are finding easier targets you can bet people with bigger rosters than you will be finding you and hitting you too. 
  • Landale
    Landale Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2017
    I liked the idea someone posted a while back that would give you a short shield while you were in a match (i.e. a 10 minute-ish shield when you start a fight).  It would allow people to reach progression rewards without hurting placement as long as you kept playing.

    At least with something like that you wouldn't come out of a fight having lost more points than you gained (unless you took a really long time to finish the match).  You would still have to buy the shields to maintain your points throughout the event, but you wouldn't have to shield hop or pray to the MPQ overlords to not get waffle stomped.
  • MaxxPowerz
    MaxxPowerz Posts: 276 Mover and Shaker
    If the idea is to progress it should be easier to obtain higher rewards as you go along, otherwise what's the point?
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    BlackIC said:
    All,
    This is good feedback! Thanks for chiming in. The purpose of this is hopefully get a response from D3 on any near future plans in regards to PvP. It has been 4 years and these items are the most common things the community would like to see refactored / updated.
    Ya know. I understand your trying to sell something to D3. But, not the whole community is behind these posted changes to PvP. More than not but not whole.
  • BlackIC
    BlackIC Posts: 65 Match Maker
    edited June 2017
    All,

    1. There will never be a complete agreement on how things should be. However, is it relevant to state that the game's PvE experience is being adjusted based on D3s data / findings. For example, there have been changes to Alliance rewards, PvE point cool down, and adjustments to the number of times a node can be done.

    2. If the general statement is about how players may progress in the game, it can then be asked to see how PvP (which is 50% of the game) is being adjusted based on data and general concerns. For example, we have seen PvP heats where the PvP contest is absolutely lopsided, to the point of the slaughter rule (e.g. highest point total is about 3000+).

    3. The community proposed the idea or may have gone as far as removing 5* from their roster due to a various number of reasons, one of them is having an MMR that is not really indicative of progress and improved PvP bracketing.

    4. There is a ceiling that the community will not go further due to concerns of being point-bombed (which was supposed to be reduced in an earlier release...) or the competition is completely out of the player's league to which it becomes a futile exercise. That leaves those with max rosters who can more readily go through the crucible and run the PvP rewards.


    My two cents on improving things:
    1. Allow people to progress through the PvP rewards. As previously suggested, if a reward milestone is reached, that is the floor of the point loss. Another thing to consider is to give the player the opportunity to play through and have a no-man's land after 1200pts to where the real competition begins to get the PvP placement awards.

    2. Adjust the MMR so the conversation is no longer to possibly remove 5* from their roster or encourage soft-capping.

    3. Possibly have smaller heats.


  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    They removed roster based scaling in PvE, hopefully removing it for PvP is next, its not enjoyable that I have to softcap my 7-8 cover 5* characters if I want to continue to participate in PvP...
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    ***Off to Suggestions and Feedback ;) ***
  • BlackIC
    BlackIC Posts: 65 Match Maker
    Lol...to where threads retire into nothingness...
  • TetsujinOni
    TetsujinOni Posts: 181 Tile Toppler
    They removed roster based scaling in PvE, hopefully removing it for PvP is next, its not enjoyable that I have to softcap my 7-8 cover 5* characters if I want to continue to participate in PvP...


    I'm having trouble conceptualizing what improvement to PvP you think would come from disengaging roster strength from the opponent selection you get back from the server.... 
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,232 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017


    I'm having trouble conceptualizing what improvement to PvP you think would come from disengaging roster strength from the opponent selection you get back from the server.... 

    Something like this, based on your event score:
    • 0-100: seed teams.
    • 100-200: 1* to 2* teams.
    • 200-400: 2* to 3* teams.
    • 400-575: 3* to 4* teams (4* teams capped at ~275 or so, i.e. not max-champs).
    • 575-900: 4* teams (approaching max-champ status as you approach 900)
    • 900-1200: 4* teams with early 5* teams.
    • 1200+: There be whales here. Anything goes, max-champ 4* all the way up to max-champ 5*.
    That said, in this structure, the 3* cover should be moved way down in the progression ladder, somewhere in the 400-575 range or so. It's laughably out of place to actual 3* transitioners as it is. Heck it's out of place for me with my puny 7 13-cover 4*.