Different take on the 120 CP for a 4* cover

Magic

"Should I pay 120 CP for a final 4* cover" is a debate that comes back in the Roster help forum with a bit of frequency. And there seems to be a trend in answers like "yes, I did it for Peggy and I don't regret" or "no, he is not top and out of the pack" etc.

I have a different take for a while now and I think I like it (it's not a secret and might have been already discussed on the forum). 

The conversation starts when you get the extra cover but can't champion. 120 CP seems expensive for that Agent Venom or Iron Fist cover (might be a no-brainer for Carol or Medusa). But a cover on the vine is worth 20 CP itself if you would pull it from the classic token. If you have 2 or 3 on the vine (which is not a rare case) it's 40 or 60. With 3 on the vine would you pay 60 to finish a character? How about 5 - would 20 CP be enough. I say yes.

When you get a guy on the vine it immediately starts to make sense to consider spending the CP directly on him. The covers don't go to waste plus you get the 25 CP worth prize back immediately in the form of Legendary token.

So the math:

1 cover on the vine - 120 CP - 20 CP - 25 CP = 75 CP to max cover a character
2 covers on the vine - 120 CP - 40 CP - 25 CP = 55 CP to max cover
3 covers on the vine - 120 CP - 60 CP - 25 CP = 35 CP to max cover
4 covers on the vine - 120 CP - 80 CP - 25 CP = 15 CP to max cover
5 covers on the vine - 120 CP - 100 CP - 25 CP = -5 CP to max cover.

Granted the "-5" is a hypothetical figure as you still have to spend the 120 CP in one go. But the change of thinking helps. Just think that you've spent it on classic tokens and got your "non-maxed" character each time. 

Now there is a second part of course for the devil's advocates in You. You probably spent some CP to get the initial "extras" anyway (but maybe one came via heroic or from progression). I know, I know. But the above formula is there to help mitigate the psychological loss when you would have to sell the cover or spend the CP on a character that you are not that fond of.

That being said - my 4 IF covers on the vine say I will champion him with 15 CP if I get enough ISO before the first cover expires. I will just not progress on other characters that much in the coming weeks.

Please join me in discussion and share your "mind tricks" you have to play while playing this game

broll

Personally this logic doesn't work with how I play for several reason.

1.  I hoard frequently and as such it's rare that I'm ever in a scenario where I have more than 2 covers on the vine and no plan to get a champ soon.
2.  For vaulted characters this math tells you that a vaulted character will never be worth the 120 because in this current meta when are you gonna ever have more than 2 covers on the vine for vaulted character (maybe with BH and opening a huge hoard).  However I tend to find more value in spending 120 to champ a vaulted because the rarity of the cover increases it's value (to me this is subjective and the in game value hasn't changed). 

MissChinch

Its worthwhile to consider the "sunk cost" concept...  spending 25 CP to draw a turd cover is a sunk cost, no point in me considering its true cost or opportunity cost as its already done and cant be recovered.  The cost of buying a cover is a straightforward 120CP, the opportunity cost for buying a cover is either 6 classics pulls or 4.8 latest legend pulls.

Thinking it through in those terms helps me quantify it a bit better for any decisions I need to make... I do not take into account ISO when weighing decisions that cost/impact CP.

Basepuzzler

That's pretty faulty logic.  Your pending covers aren't worth 20cp.  They're worth what the champ rewards would be.  A couple cp, 10% of a leg token(1 every 10 covers), and hp/ISO.  Buying a cover to save a pending one is a bad idea. 

Only do it to cover a character you want to use.

Jaedenkaal

Basepuzzler said:

That's pretty faulty logic.  Your pending covers aren't worth 20cp.  They're worth what the champ rewards would be.  A couple cp, 10% of a leg token(1 every 10 covers), and hp/ISO.  Buying a cover to save a pending one is a bad idea. 

Only do it to cover a character you want to use.

Well the first 4* champ cover is always a legendary token. 

The other thing you're buying (assuming we're talking about buying the 13th cover for the purposes of championing) is the immediate improvement to your roster, which is worth more in many cases than a potential improvement to your roster at a later time.

mohio

Jaedenkaal said:

Basepuzzler said:

That's pretty faulty logic.  Your pending covers aren't worth 20cp.  They're worth what the champ rewards would be.  A couple cp, 10% of a leg token(1 every 10 covers), and hp/ISO.  Buying a cover to save a pending one is a bad idea. 

Only do it to cover a character you want to use.

Well the first 4* champ cover is always a legendary token. 

The other thing you're buying (assuming we're talking about buying the 13th cover for the purposes of championing) is the immediate improvement to your roster, which is worth more in many cases than a potential improvement to your roster at a later time.

As for the first part...think of it similar to a sunk cost. You're going to get that first legendary token at some point anyway, so you really should just think about the +1 (or 2 or 3 or however many you have waiting) champ levels, which granted will get you closer to the better rewards at 290+. 20 cp is really stretching it. 

As for the second part. The comment you quoted mostly covers that in saying "only do it to cover a character you want to use". If champing a boosted 4* for a week when you had none before will suddenly let you get to 1200 in pvp that whole week, then you could maybe stretch it to say it's worth more to you since you will get those added rewards, on top of the champion rewards you are "saving"

pheregas

IMHO, if you have to mind trick yourself into doing something, you probably shouldn't do it.

But to address OPs original pitch, you may have to add a modifier for who is exiting the pack next.  A Bl4de cover on the vine is worth far less in that respect than a G4mora or 4-RnG.

It should be everyone's goal to hoard until you have enough Iso to champ a in-token 4*.  If you can keep pace (or better yet gain - which is possible as I did it), then start pulling until you get that 13th cover.

Once you get those 12 going, then it's time to go back and fill in the vaulted 4s.  It'll be a long road though.  

Fightmastermpq

mohio said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Basepuzzler said:

That's pretty faulty logic.  Your pending covers aren't worth 20cp.  They're worth what the champ rewards would be.  A couple cp, 10% of a leg token(1 every 10 covers), and hp/ISO.  Buying a cover to save a pending one is a bad idea. 

Only do it to cover a character you want to use.

Well the first 4* champ cover is always a legendary token. 

The other thing you're buying (assuming we're talking about buying the 13th cover for the purposes of championing) is the immediate improvement to your roster, which is worth more in many cases than a potential improvement to your roster at a later time.

As for the first part...think of it similar to a sunk cost. You're going to get that first legendary token at some point anyway, so you really should just think about the +1 (or 2 or 3 or however many you have waiting) champ levels, which granted will get you closer to the better rewards at 290+. 20 cp is really stretching it. 

As for the second part. The comment you quoted mostly covers that in saying "only do it to cover a character you want to use". If champing a boosted 4* for a week when you had none before will suddenly let you get to 1200 in pvp that whole week, then you could maybe stretch it to say it's worth more to you since you will get those added rewards, on top of the champion rewards you are "saving"

Great point, but those additional rewards are still going to be less than the 120 CP you spend for that final cover.

IMO the only time it would ever make sense if it was your 1st or 2nd 4* champ and you needed that final cover to respec to something useful...so to spec a IMHB from 2 to 5 red, or Bobby from 2 to 5 blue or something like that.  Those are the types of game-changing upgrades that take you from never hitting max progression to hitting it consistently and thus bringing a positive return on that 120 CP.

Painmonger

I've had to watch 6 wasp covers, 3 Danny Rand, & a spider woman rot away on the vine in the last month & still have a Medusa, Coulson, & 3 more IF still in my queue on top of an Agent Venom  I don't have the ISO to champ ATM. I have pulled a bunch of usable covers in the same time period for sure, but if I'd bought specific covers instead of rng token pulls I'd have been able to target the characters I wanted​ & have them champed instead of the widespread random covers I don't care about & an ever-increasing iso debt. 

Hadronic

Painmonger said:

I've had to watch 6 wasp covers, 3 Danny Rand, & a spider woman rot away on the vine in the last month & still have a Medusa, Coulson, & 3 more IF still in my queue on top of an Agent Venom  I don't have the ISO to champ ATM. I have pulled a bunch of usable covers in the same time period for sure, but if I'd bought specific covers instead of rng token pulls I'd have been able to target the characters I wanted​ & have them champed instead of the widespread random covers I don't care about & an ever-increasing iso debt. 

Consider hoarding.

As far as the value of spending 120cp, if you feel it was worth the value when you decide to do it, that's all the matters. No need to justify your reasons to anyone.

Everyone's roster is different so we all arrive at the decision to spend or not for different reasons.

I spent 120 to finish thoress back in October and at the time I felt it was worth it. Today, after vaulting, I probably wouldn't spend on thoress if I was in same situation. 

Felonius

I don't know about "mind tricks", I rather think a lot depends on what your goals are for this game.

For instance, my goal over the last year has been to Champ All 4* Characters.  To that end, whenever I get a 14th cover in my queue, I make every effort to champ that character next.  It doesn't mattered how good or bad that character is considered, Limited, Blessed, or Vaulted, doesn't matter...  My Riri and Mordo got champed along with my Medusa and C4rol.  Devil Dinosaur and Howard the Duck.  All champed.  And yes, I'm aware they keep moving the goal post, but I don't mind, and I'm gaining on 'em.  Only three more Vaulted and the latest three (including Sandman)... a current total of six characters, left to go...

Anyway, there have been a handful of times I've got a 6th-color cover for a 12-covered character, and I've spent the 120CP to get the necessary 13th cover first.  I even once spent 240CP on an 11-covered character when I had a handful of otherwise unusable covers in the queue.  Doing these things do not bother me at all, because it's all just game numerics that I've earned with intent to spend on my goal, anyway.

CT1888

In the position with several covers in the queue and 1 cover needed to be able to champ, I look at those covers as representing 20/25cp of waste. If I spend 120cp for the last cover it represents certainty that I'll be able to use those covers plus continue on my goal of champing everyone that comes round in the 12 to maximise levels. Sure, the other covers I could've drawn could've would likely be useful for another character, but hey, I want the certainty. (only done this once though)

Once into 5* land with numerous 4* champs, those draws represent chances at 5* covers, so the equation shifts towards just letting the original covers die on the vine.

MissChinch

...you could also look at spending 120CP as wasting 5 covers, because 120CP buys you 6 classic pulls...  

Really theres no right answer to this, whatever gives you the best sense of progress, keeps you having fun and motivated to keep going works...

FokaiHI

If you are buying a cover for a vaulted character that you want, then do it. If you are buying a cover for one of the "current 12", bad idea. 

Tbh, I only tell my kids what to do with their money, so I won't tell you what to do, but I would be patient.