Ideal PVE Clearing Order.........by Mathematical Analysis

bbigler

Hey everyone, I know this topic has been discussed before, but this time I took the guess work and personal opinions out of the equation.  I tracked/calculated the point refresh rates for each node and then created a spreadsheet/matrix which would calculate the points rewarded for clearing that node at a particular time.  I focused on the end grind of the sub-event, being the 5th, 6th and 7th clears.  My results were very interesting as I discovered a better way to clear for max points.  I will identify the nodes in this way:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 for the regular nodes without a required character, 6 being the hardest node with the most points
2*, 3*, 4* for the required character nodes
Note: some other nodes are "join forces" nodes where all 3 characters are required, this is a special case
Also note: some nodes are 4 mission high point wave nodes, which is a special case too, but these concepts still apply

First, here is the order of point refresh rates from lowest to highest:
1, 2, 3, 4, 2*, 5, 3*, 4*, 6

I believe most people start a sub-event by clearing in this order:
4*-4*-4*-4*-3*-3*-3*-3*-2*-2*-2*-2*-1-2-3-4-5-6-6-6-6-5-5-5-4-4-4-3-3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1
But it wouldn't be crazy to start the sub-event by clearing in this order instead:
4*-4*-4*-4*-3*-3*-3*-3*-1-2-3-4-5-6-6-6-6-5-5-5-2*-2*-2*-2*-4-4-4-3-3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1
I'm not sure which order is better, that would take a separate analysis, but I'm leaning towards the second

Now, onto the matter at hand, the order of the final grind.  First, I must say that timing your final grind is just as important as the order of the grind.  I've calculated that you lose about 1 point per minute for finishing too early.  So, if you finish with 3 minutes or more to spare, then just play some nodes worth 2 or 3 points to make up for that.  It's always better to finish too early than to finish too late and completely miss some 7th clears.  I used the Meet Rocket & Groot final sub-event as an example to calculate different clearing orders, here are the results:

Here's the baseline standard I'll compare against for clearing the 5th, 6th and 7th times:
1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-4-2*-2*-2*-5-5-5-3*-3*-3*-4*-4*-4*-6-6-6 = 9159 points
Lately, I've been going in a different order, which has been working well for me:
1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-2*-2*-5-5-3*-3*-4*-4*-6-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6 = 9164 points (+5)
Since the above order is better, I tried it out another way, which had even better results:
1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6 = 9166 points (+7)
Note: I tried 2 other hybrid ways of clearing, but they both resulted with the same points as the baseline

Conclusion: the last way is the best, but it's not as complicated as it looks.  You simply do 1 clear of each node from lowest to highest, then repeat that 2 more times.  Make sure you have enough time for all clears and if you finish with enough time for another match or two, then do them.  I know this may sound crazy for just a few more points, but it adds up with each sub-event and the final standings are actually that close.  Lastly, the speed at which you clear all nodes will give you an advantage over another player by about 1 point per minute.  So, if a 5* roster clears 15 minutes faster than you, then they have a 15 point advantage over you in the beginning AND the end of the event.  So, choose the fastest teams possible. 

Other notes: if the event has a "join forces" node, then simply fit it into your final clear based on it's point value, usually between "2" and "3" nodes.  If an event has high point wave nodes, then stick with the concept of clearing in the order of lowest to highest points.  If an event has a 1 mission node that isn't required to open up other nodes, then complete it later, after the initial 4 clears.  Time is precious. 

Pongie

The difference is so small (5-7 points out of 9100) that it could just be the timing of your clears instead of the order of your clears. If you want a proper comparison, you need to simulate it and assume each battle takes x minutes to really see if the order actually makes a difference

bbigler

Pongie said:

The difference is so small (5-7 points out of 9100) that it could just be the timing of your clears instead of the order of your clears. If you want a proper comparison, you need to simulate it and assume each battle takes x minutes to really see if the order actually makes a difference

I did assume the time it takes for each battle, otherwise, I couldn't have calculated it.  The total time for all clears equaled 60 minutes.  The easy nodes were 30 seconds up to the hard nodes taking 3.5 minutes.  In my calculations, all things were equal, except the order of clearing.  If you don't believe me, that's fine, but I'm confident that I've found the best order and can take advantage of it. 

Pongie

Ran some numbers and you may be right. Though to make calculations simpler I did have 1,2,3 take 1min each, 4,2* take 2mins each, 5,3*,4* take 3mins each and 6 be 4mins (totaling 20mins for a full clear). Used the node values from iso8 and sub 1 grind between the two methods were 4777 vs 4802 (+25 points).

Edit: Sheets if anyone wants to double check my maths

Bowgentle

7 points difference?
I appreciate the effort, but I'll stick to what I've been doing for 1300+ days

Pongie

Updated my formulas to use the same rocket & groot sub and I'm getting 9255 vs 9304 (+49 points)

Sendikelm

Standard start is slightly better (especially with your version of the final grind). I've tried it on Pongie's sheet.

bbigler

Bowgentle said:

7 points difference?
I appreciate the effort, but I'll stick to what I've been doing for 1300+ days

7 points * 4 Sub-events = 28 points = better rank

Plus, the point difference may be greater with higher point Sub-events.

bbigler

I'm glad to see that other people are coming to similar results.  Feel free to call this clearing order "the Bigler method"

bbigler

OJSP said:

How about : 1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-2*-2*-5-5-3*-3*-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-4*-4*-6-6-6 for the grind?

This order is similar to another "hybrid" clearing order that I tried in my spreadsheet.  Unfortunately, it scored the same as the baseline method. 

The real discovery here is that it's more important to let all nodes refresh as much as possible instead of giving more refresh time to high point nodes and taking it away from low point nodes.

bbigler

If you want to re-create my tests, here are the numbers that I used:

Refresh Rates (points/minute)

1 - 0.06159
2 - 0.08333
3 - 0.10145
4 - 0.11957
2* - 0.13043
5 - 0.14130
3* - 0.14130
4* - 0.15580
6 - 0.16304

Starting (full) points per node:

1 - 270
2 - 355
3 - 439
4 - 522
2* - 556
5 - 609
3* - 614
4* - 678
6 - 695

Time to clear a node once (minutes):

1 - 0.5
2 - 0.5
3 - 1.5
4 - 2.0
2* - 2.5
5 - 3.0
3* - 3.5
4* - 3.5
6 - 3.0

Note: node clearing times are shorter during the first 4 clears.

bbigler

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OJSP said:

bbigler said:

OJSP said:

How about : 1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-2*-2*-5-5-3*-3*-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-4*-4*-6-6-6 for the grind?

This order is similar to another "hybrid" clearing order that I tried in my spreadsheet.  Unfortunately, it scored the same as the baseline method. 

The real discovery here is that it's more important to let all nodes refresh as much as possible instead of giving more refresh time to high point nodes and taking it away from low point nodes.

Thanks. Now if only we know why in a 48 hour sub sometimes when the node says Full Points, it's still not giving us Full Points, and the refresh timer is increased by up to 21 minutes..

I think that problem comes from the app not updating properly from the server.  Restarting the app should fix the problem.  I've been seeing things like that lately.

astrp3

bbigler said:

I think that problem comes from the app not updating properly from the server.  Restarting the app should fix the problem.  I've been seeing things like that lately.

Maybe, but what I've noticed (unless my memory is faulty) is that the time will say there are a few minutes left until full refresh. I click another tab then click back and it suddenly says "full points" (or whatever), even though the total points is actually one-point shy of a full refresh and there are supposed to be a few minutes left. If I wait until the time when it was supposed to refresh, it ticks up to the correct full point total (i.e. it says there are three minutes left, then clicks over to "full points" with a total 1-point shy of max, but if I wait three minutes, it adds the final point).

bbigler

astrp3 said:

bbigler said:

I think that problem comes from the app not updating properly from the server.  Restarting the app should fix the problem.  I've been seeing things like that lately.

Maybe, but what I've noticed (unless my memory is faulty) is that the time will say there are a few minutes left until full refresh. I click another tab then click back and it suddenly says "full points" (or whatever), even though the total points is actually one-point shy of a full refresh and there are supposed to be a few minutes left. If I wait until the time when it was supposed to refresh, it ticks up to the correct full point total (i.e. it says there are three minutes left, then clicks over to "full points" with a total 1-point shy of max, but if I wait three minutes, it adds the final point).

OK, I see what you mean now.  For a 48 hr sub, I can get full points for the 5th clear when the timer has about 3-4 minutes left.  I suppose that's just a rounding error.

broll

bbigler said:

1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-2*-2*-5-5-3*-3*-4*-4*-6-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6 = 9164 points (+5)
Since the above order is better, I tried it out another way, which had even better results:

On the days I have time to do optimal and/or 7th clear (usually only Saturday and Sunday and some holidays, stupid horrible time slots  ) the above is what I typically do.  If I'm not sure I'll get all 7 done I'll occasionally do this:
1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-2*-2*-5-5-3*-3*-4*-4*-6-6-6-4*-3*-5-2*-4-3-2-1
That way if I don't get a 7th off it's for the smaller 50-100 point nodes.

Also from what I've seen the point values between 4-5-6 & 2*-3*-4* vary a lot.  Sometimes 2*-3*-4* are all 3 higher than 6, other times it's as you have above.  I check everytime.

bbigler

I re-ran the clearing order tests, but this time, I tried out different initial clearing methods.  For the starting clear, I had 3 methods:

Starting Clear
Standard: 4*-4*-4*-4*-3*-3*-3*-3*-2*-2*-2*-2*-1-2-3-4-5-6-6-6-6-5-5-5-4-4-4-3-3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1
Hybrid:     4*-4*-4*-4*-3*-3*-3*-3*-1-2-3-4-5-6-6-6-6-5-5-5-2*-2*-2*-2*-4-4-4-3-3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1
6 First:     1-2-3-4-5-6-6-6-6-4*-4*-4*-4*-3*-3*-3*-3*-5-5-5-2*-2*-2*-2*-4-4-4-3-3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1

Final Clear
Standard: 1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-4-2*-2*-2*-5-5-5-3*-3*-3*-4*-4*-4*-6-6-6
3 Waves:  1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6-1-2-3-4-2*-5-3*-4*-6

Clearing Tests (from lowest to highest points)
6 First + Standard = 9242
Hybrid + Standard = 9246
Standard + Standard = 9248
6 First + 3 Waves = 9250
Hybrid + 3 Waves = 9254
Standard + 3 Waves = 9256

So, this still proves that my new 3 wave method of clearing beats the standard method, but it also shows that the standard method for the starting clear is the best also.  These methods, of course, have to be tailored to the event since there may be other "join forces" or wave nodes to consider.

Pants1000

This is very interesting, and I love the mathematical analysis, but I think there are some variables that aren't accounted for.  

Did you time yourself doing various nodes, or are the times educated guesses?  I think those average times will vary depending on the event, the player's roster, strategy, etc.

I know for me there's no way the 3rd node takes 3x as long as the 2nd node, and if the 4* essential is good and champed (like Blade this event) then it goes much faster than when the 4* essential is a new release.

Maybe I'll time myself one of these days to see how close your numbers are to mine.

Pongie

That's why I had my times as 
1 - 1min
2 - 1min
3 - 1min
4 - 2mins
2* - 2mins
5 - 3mins
3* - 3mins
4* - 3mins
6 - 4mins

whole numbers and adds up to 20mins. 5-7 clears would then be an hour

Pants1000

I kept track of my clears 5-7 for ISO 8 Algeria.  I did all 3 in a row, checked the time, and divided by 3 to get an average per node.  Sorry there aren't many whole numbers.

1: .66
2: 1
3: 1.33
4: 2.33
5: 2.66
6: 3.33
2*: 1.33
3*: 2.66
4*: 3

Based on those numbers, would it be best to do 6, 4, 4*, 5, 3*, 3, 2, 1, 2*?  That's the order I came up with looking at points/time.

Yepyep

bbigler said:

It's always better to finish too early than to finish too late and completely miss some 7th clears.  

Ok, this confuses me. 7 clears? There are only 6 available. What are you talking about...?

TPF Alexis

Yepyep said:

bbigler said:

It's always better to finish too early than to finish too late and completely miss some 7th clears.  

Ok, this confuses me. 7 clears? There are only 6 available. What are you talking about...?

There are only Rewards for the first 6 Clears, but you can keep playing green checked Nodes for more Points. You can get one more Clear (for a total of 7) worth a significant number of Points from each Node in a one-day Sub, and two more (for a total of 8) in a two-day Sub.