Need Characters that directly Counter all these Passives

Hadronic

So not everyone may agree with me but I feel that all the passives are getting a bit out of control. Instead of nerfing any of these passives I think we just need new characters that counter some of this.

Who the character is, and how exactly the abilities function I will leave for discussion, but a few of my ideas include:

• An active ability that creates a countdown tile that disables all passives while it is on the board.
• An active ability that creates some kind of special tile (think blackhole type tile) that deals damage (or stuns) an enemy  whenever they trigger a passive.

You could also get similar effects using passive abilities but I was trying to avoid having passives triggering other passives.

Pongie

This will probably break their code. Passive should not trigger another passive to avoid infinite loops. The suggestion to block all passive from triggering is fine, but the other that deals damage is definitely not

Mjsleftglove

Cloak and daggers black ability 

Pwuz_

Mjsleftglove said:

Cloak and daggers black ability 

That really only partially affects some passives.  I think the OP was thinking something that would wholesale stop passives from working (temporarily.)

Personally I've had the same thought more than a few times as well.  I'd like it to be a double edged sword though that stops all passives (both friendly and enemies.)

It honestly feels a little like something Taskmaster could bring to the table.  Perhaps something that works like Peggy's yellow with a health threashold to maintain it.  How much would that break the Meta?

Wumpushunter

Then they would put that ability on goons and destory the game.

Hadronic

Pwuz_ said:

Mjsleftglove said:

Cloak and daggers black ability 

That really only partially affects some passives.  I think the OP was thinking something that would wholesale stop passives from working (temporarily.)

Personally I've had the same thought more than a few times as well.  I'd like it to be a double edged sword though that stops all passives (both friendly and enemies.)

It honestly feels a little like something Taskmaster could bring to the table.  Perhaps something that works like Peggy's yellow with a health threashold to maintain it.  How much would that break the Meta?

Yes this is more what I had in mind, and I agree it should be a double edged sword that stops friendly passives too so that you have to build a team around it.

Megdar

In pve you don't care about the passive and in pvp because of boosted, you can't counter other team. Look at Kate, her blue is perfect to control healing, but no one bring Kate to Medusa fight if Medusa is boosted and Kate is not, because you will end up under levelled and the match will be as tough as you would have brought the boosted instead of Kate.

Pwuz_

I think Kate may be a poor example.  I see lots of unboosted characters in PvP, but Kate is hardly among them (even when she is boosted I don't see her much.)

veny

Hm... how about some cheap stuns?

Megdar

Pwuz_ said:

I think Kate may be a poor example.  I see lots of unboosted characters in PvP, but Kate is hardly among them (even when she is boosted I don't see her much.)

And this is exactly why it was a good example. She has a counter and you don't see her...

When was the last time you seen some use Hero in PVP because of their Counter. I can think only of Peggy, if you count her Yellow as an Activated Ability counter...

Star Lord, nope, Kate, countrary to you, I see her a lot, but only when boosted, her black hit like a train for 8.

Elektra, as counter to Strike Tile, nope. Quake, even when boosted I don't see her, dmg being low for the cost. But her yellow is a great counter to AOE, but outside of boosted I will not bring her. Venom as counter to shield, nope. War Machine against invisibility, don't think so.

Here, more example then just Kate.

Jaedenkaal

Megdar said:

Pwuz_ said:

I think Kate may be a poor example.  I see lots of unboosted characters in PvP, but Kate is hardly among them (even when she is boosted I don't see her much.)

And this is exactly why it was a good example. She has a counter and you don't see her...

When was the last time you seen some use Hero in PVP because of their Counter. I can think only of Peggy, if you count her Yellow as an Activated Ability counter...

Star Lord, nope, Kate, countrary to you, I see her a lot, but only when boosted, her black hit like a train for 8.

Elektra, as counter to Strike Tile, nope. Quake, even when boosted I don't see her, dmg being low for the cost. But her yellow is a great counter to AOE, but outside of boosted I will not bring her. Venom as counter to shield, nope. War Machine against invisibility, don't think so.

Here, more example then just Kate.

Very few of those examples are counters to passive abilities. And those that are, are all active abilities. Does a power that costs 12 Blue and stops Medusa from healing the team for at most 5 turns really qualify as an effective counter? Heck no. You'd be much better off just using a cheap stun, and preventing Medusa from doing ANYTHING. Gamora's Blue demonstrates this pretty well.

Cheap stuns pretty much counter any character, though (except those with passives that specifically prevent or discourage stuns, I suppose, but those are all 5*s iirc) so I don't really think it addresses the issue at hand.

Countering passive abilities with actives is a tricky thing, though. You have to spend time to gather AP, and then spend that AP on what will presumably be a temporary effect, and you also pay the opportunity cost of having that ability (or even the whole character) on your roster, which could be a disadvantage once that particular passive ability or character has been neutralized (or isn't present on the opposing team, which would matter on defense).
Meanwhile, while you've selected what is otherwise a sub-optimal team and are now spending time in the match attempting to gather the right kind of AP, the passive abilities on the other team are ripping you apart, regardless of what matches they make, what AP you have, etc...

I think that's the real danger of this Medusa/Carnage combo specifically. The only correct matches you can make are the matches with no special tiles at all, and by turn 4 that's basically impossible.

mohio

Jaedenkaal said : "Cheap stuns pretty much counter any character, though (except those with passives that specifically prevent or discourage stuns, I suppose, but those are all 5*s iirc) so I don't really think it addresses the issue at hand."

I am a 5* player and I routinely come across these types of issues and find myself needing to bring MBW teamups as "cheap stuns" to negate powerful passives from firing. Think of Blackbolt or Dr. Strange. There's not much you can do against them without taking a pretty decent chunk of damage from their passive abilities without stunning them. Even a high leveled OML can be a pain in the butt if he's with friends who need to be saved for last due to his healing (not the best example post nerf). Anyway, I guess my point is, even in 5* land it would be great to have a way to shut down passives without having to resort to stunning the character to remove their passive from working. With the number of characters getting passive abilities these days, I don't really see a strong counter being something they would make though, which is kinda unfortunate. I guess I'll just keep asking for those mbw teamups...

Megdar

Jaedenkaal said:

Megdar said:

Pwuz_ said:

I think Kate may be a poor example.  I see lots of unboosted characters in PvP, but Kate is hardly among them (even when she is boosted I don't see her much.)

And this is exactly why it was a good example. She has a counter and you don't see her...

When was the last time you seen some use Hero in PVP because of their Counter. I can think only of Peggy, if you count her Yellow as an Activated Ability counter...

Star Lord, nope, Kate, countrary to you, I see her a lot, but only when boosted, her black hit like a train for 8.

Elektra, as counter to Strike Tile, nope. Quake, even when boosted I don't see her, dmg being low for the cost. But her yellow is a great counter to AOE, but outside of boosted I will not bring her. Venom as counter to shield, nope. War Machine against invisibility, don't think so.

Here, more example then just Kate.

Very few of those examples are counters to passive abilities.

I was not suggesting counter to passive, I was saying that counter power are useless. The original poster wanted a counter to passive. Counter on a Hero are nearly always useless and I was stating a list of counter to something that no one use precisely for countering.

Do I use Kate to counter Medusa. No, exactly my point, I work around her (Stun) or outright one shot her. Do the Kate blue help. Yes if Kate happen to be boosted the same week Medusa is boosted I will bring Kate to Medusa fight, but this is a pretty corner case. Her blue nearly one shot some hero, I will kill one and for 5 turn, Medusa will not heal anymore, enough to kill another one. And this get back to my original statement, as long as there are boosted, counter are useless because they are not boosted, so underleveled.

So are counter to passive needed, I say no, because for the moment dev are not able to make counter Hero work.

Mohio do the right thing, bring a TU MBW and stun, this is the best counter to anything.

Pwuz_

That kinda was my point that a Passive counter would be the only truely effective way to counter Passives.

I agree that Kate's Blue is not an effective counter to Medusa.  Already people are using Medusa as a counter to Medusa. Just like years ago Hood was the only real counter to Hood.  The list goes on, but the number of times in the Meta that the only way to fight Fire is with Fire.