Backed the wrong horse! Dup crafting system

Ohboy

Oh for crying out loud. I still don't know how you interpreted this:

"We do not currently have plans for additional things Duplicate cards can be used for, but this does not mean it will never happen. If you want to keep your duplicates for any reason, you can do so, and for this reason we haven't implemented an automatic conversion into Runes."

As anything other than "there are currently no plans for duplicate cards to do anything else other than to convert into runes".

If you're using the second part of that quote as your justification...you must fall for a lot of PR speak.

So yes, every time you bring up this nonsensical interpretation, I will argue with you over it. It's insane.

majincob

Ohboy said:

Oh for crying out loud. I still don't know how you interpreted this:

"We do not currently have plans for additional things Duplicate cards can be used for, but this does not mean it will never happen. If you want to keep your duplicates for any reason, you can do so, and for this reason we haven't implemented an automatic conversion into Runes."

As anything other than "there are currently no plans for duplicate cards to do anything else other than to convert into runes".

If you're using the second part of that quote as your justification...you must fall for a lot of PR speak.

So yes, every time you bring up this nonsensical interpretation, I will argue with you over it. It's insane.

highlight added for emphasis.

khurram

@Ohboy how come currently and never are the same things in your dictionary?

Players who interpreted that there might be room for any other method are perfectly justified in doing so.

Read again

"We do not currently have plans for additional things Duplicate cards can be used for, but this does not mean it will never happen. If you want to keep your duplicates for any reason, you can do so, and for this reason we haven't implemented an automatic conversion into Runes."

For crying out loud. Read. It. Again.

Are you saying that the second part of this statement was an outright lie told by developers, and players are saying nonsense for interpreting it for what it obviously meant?

It might be PR speak but they said it. And you can't act all wise and speak down to people for deciding to take devs on their words.

Steeme

It's mind-blowing how those "in the know" can berate the rest of the player base.

Can you not for one moment, come down to planet Earth with the rest of us mortals and at least try to understand why the majority of the playerbase has converted their cards in the past?  There are plenty of reasons why, and regardless of whether or not you have succumb to the same fate, you need to acknowledge that, in general, it is pretty lame for some players to receive 1000 runes for a Mythic while you receive X amount of crafting tokens (ie. a partial Mythic).

The partial Mythic is worth immensely more than the 1000 rune reward for conversion.

It is quite clear that those opposed to one-time rune to token conversion at the beginning of the new crafting system are being selfish and uncompassionate.  I wish everyone would just man-up and agree on a system that's fair and balanced for everyone and stop selfishly thinking about themselves.

Enough of this "well you willingly chose to convert to runes so you're out of luck" nonsense.  It's a lame argument.

//Removed Profanity Acronym -Brigby

Ohboy

They aren't synonymous in my dictionary. 

When someone tells me and some friends there are currently no plans to invite us to Europe but in future maybe, I don't go out and buy an air ticket. There's a difference between knowing I'm not going europe tomorrow, and knowing I'm never going to Europe. But in both cases, my reaction is the same : I don't buy a ticket. 

Some friends might buy a ticket, and badger the host for an invitation that eventually comes so they can now use that ticket ... My stance is simply that based on the information available to me, buying a ticket thinking I would be invited is pure lunacy. 

Such friends might laugh at me who can't find a last minute ticket, and say they invested in a ticket instead of buying an Xbox like me and deserves to be rewarded for it. Others might even join in and sarcastically ask me if I knew the difference between "currently" and "never". The fact still remains that based on the statement, no one should have bought that ticket. 

In case it wasn't clear, you're saying that the decision to buy/not buy that ticket isn't severely skewed in the favor of not buying that ticket. It really is. 

losdamianos

@Ohboy
are you suggesting Your friends should lose their concert ticket ?

Steeme

losdamianos said:

@Ohboy
are you suggesting Your friends should lose their concert ticket ?

He is suggesting that perhaps everyone should be given the opportunity to buy a concert ticket to join in the festivities.  It doesn't even have to be at the same price, you can tax it if you like.

You aren't against a fair and balanced system, are you?

losdamianos

but Ohboy had a chance to buy the ticket and chose to get Xbox instead.
To be fair I was never a fan of Communism and Socialism but if there is enough Social Justice Warriors on the forum to temper others choice so be it. I have hoarded boosters packs and wonder how they will get me

PS. Holidays in Europe are overrated anyway

Steeme

losdamianos said:

but Ohboy had a chance to buy the ticket and chose to get Xbox instead.
To be fair I was never a fan of Communism and Socialism but if there is enough Social Justice Warriors on the forum to temper others choice so be it. I have hoarded boosters packs and wonder how they will get me

PS. Holidays in Europe are overrated anyway

You're using the word "choice" as if there was an actual choice other than converting.  There was literally only one option at the time.  If you were privy to prior knowledge of some impending dupe system, which the general population was not aware of, then congratulations!  You win the award of being a part of the privileged few that hoarded packs and can profit!

Now that you've got what you wanted... why does it bother you if the rest of the playerbase can also buy into the system, effectively trading back some of those runes that were converted into tokens?  I mean, it doesn't really affect you, because they will be converted into non-standard tokens... so why are you against a fair system if it doesn't affect you?

In addition, why do you have problems empathizing with other players?  You yourself would feel absolutely terrible if you spent 100 USD in currency and got a handful of runes for it.  Would you not want some type of fair exchange so that you actually obtained something for that currency spent?  The fact that you think this type of fate for others is acceptable simply because it doesn't affect you is mind-boggling.

majincob

Ohboy said:

They aren't synonymous in my dictionary. 

When someone tells me and some friends there are currently no plans to invite us to Europe but in future maybe, I don't go out and buy an air ticket. There's a difference between knowing I'm not going europe tomorrow, and knowing I'm never going to Europe. But in both cases, my reaction is the same : I don't buy a ticket. 

Some friends might buy a ticket, and badger the host for an invitation that eventually comes so they can now use that ticket ... My stance is simply that based on the information available to me, buying a ticket thinking I would be invited is pure lunacy. 

Such friends might laugh at me who can't find a last minute ticket, and say they invested in a ticket instead of buying an Xbox like me and deserves to be rewarded for it. Others might even join in and sarcastically ask me if I knew the difference between "currently" and "never". The fact still remains that based on the statement, no one should have bought that ticket. 

In case it wasn't clear, you're saying that the decision to buy/not buy that ticket isn't severely skewed in the favor of not buying that ticket. It really is. 

I'll work with your analogy:

Most people chose to buy the X-box, I chose to save my money for a plane ticket on the off-chance I could visit friends in Europe in the future. Now that there's a Europe invitation people are saying I should have to buy the X-box instead or it isn't fair to those who didn't save for the plane ticket. Even though they got to play with their X-box this whole time and I didn't.

Steeme said:

It's mind-blowing how those "in the know" can berate the rest of the player base.

Can you not for one moment, come down to planet Earth with the rest of us mortals and at least try to understand why the majority of the playerbase has converted their cards in the past?  There are plenty of reasons why, and regardless of whether or not you have succumb to the same fate, you need to acknowledge that, in general, it is pretty lame for some players to receive 1000 runes for a Mythic while you receive X amount of crafting tokens (ie. a partial Mythic).

The partial Mythic is worth immensely more than the 1000 rune reward for conversion.

It is quite clear that those opposed to one-time rune to token conversion at the beginning of the new crafting system are being selfish and uncompassionate.  I wish everyone would just man-up and agree on a system that's fair and balanced for everyone and stop selfishly thinking about themselves.

Enough of this "well you willingly chose to convert to runes so you're SOL" nonsense.  It's a lame argument.

I totally agree it is lame to receive 1000 runes for a mythic. That is the reason I never converted. The up-front gain was worth less than a potential new use in the future (for me). And I totally understand that some people feel bad that there are players who could benefit much more than them from this new system based on the massive disparity between players who always converted and those who never did.

The devs already addressed this though. The vast vast majority of all dupes are going to make worthless "non-standard" packs that can't give me or any other "hoarder" an advantage in competitive events.

The ironic part is that once we get more details about the exchange rates and whether you can guarantee non-dupes or not I might just convert all my dupes to runes before the update anyway since they won't let us keep our dupes in the future and runes are more valuable to me now that QB is gone. Because those friends in Europe probably only want me to come over because they ran out of cash and want to mooch off me and I'd have more fun with the X-box after all.

khurram

Ohboy said:

They aren't synonymous in my dictionary. 

When someone tells me and some friends there are currently no plans to invite us to Europe but in future maybe, I don't go out and buy an air ticket. There's a difference between knowing I'm not going europe tomorrow, and knowing I'm never going to Europe. But in both cases, my reaction is the same : I don't buy a ticket. 

Some friends might buy a ticket, and badger the host for an invitation that eventually comes so they can now use that ticket ... My stance is simply that based on the information available to me, buying a ticket thinking I would be invited is pure lunacy. 

Such friends might laugh at me who can't find a last minute ticket, and say they invested in a ticket instead of buying an Xbox like me and deserves to be rewarded for it. Others might even join in and sarcastically ask me if I knew the difference between "currently" and "never". The fact still remains that based on the statement, no one should have bought that ticket. 

In case it wasn't clear, you're saying that the decision to buy/not buy that ticket isn't severely skewed in the favor of not buying that ticket. It really is. 

I like this analogy. Except in this case no one is buying tickets. Everyone had the tickets. It's just that some people sold their tickets and others decided to keep theirs for any possibility of future visits, and there was possibility. It's not like they were banned for life from travelling to Europe, so why would they sell their tickets? It doesn't hurt to keep them. Doesn't matter how far in future but they decided to keep that door open while others burned their boats.

I don't think they should be punished for keeping that option open for them because other people took the other route.

losdamianos

khurram said:

Ohboy said:

They aren't synonymous in my dictionary. 

When someone tells me and some friends there are currently no plans to invite us to Europe but in future maybe, I don't go out and buy an air ticket. There's a difference between knowing I'm not going europe tomorrow, and knowing I'm never going to Europe. But in both cases, my reaction is the same : I don't buy a ticket. 

Some friends might buy a ticket, and badger the host for an invitation that eventually comes so they can now use that ticket ... My stance is simply that based on the information available to me, buying a ticket thinking I would be invited is pure lunacy. 

Such friends might laugh at me who can't find a last minute ticket, and say they invested in a ticket instead of buying an Xbox like me and deserves to be rewarded for it. Others might even join in and sarcastically ask me if I knew the difference between "currently" and "never". The fact still remains that based on the statement, no one should have bought that ticket. 

In case it wasn't clear, you're saying that the decision to buy/not buy that ticket isn't severely skewed in the favor of not buying that ticket. It really is. 

I like this analogy. Except in this case no one is buying tickets. Everyone had the tickets. It's just that some people sold their tickets and others decided to keep theirs for any possibility of future visits, and there was possibility. It's not like they were banned for life from travelling to Europe, so why would they sell their tickets? It doesn't hurt to keep them. Doesn't matter how far in future but they decided to keep that door open while others burned their boats.

I don't think they should be punished for keeping that option open for them because other people took the other route.

I must say I really like the idea of poorer pressuring the system to punish other people who made DIFFERENT choices in the past.

Lets translate it to real life, my neighbor is considerably richer than me. He is richer because in the past he made different choices in life than me which led him to his current financial state. IF I would made same choices as him I would be much richer.

Now Im not quite happy with this so I can go to my fellow poorer neighbors and together we'll try to either ruin his house/car all valuable possessions to bring him down to the same level as we are OR we preassure the system to TAX a bunch out of him. In any case, I can't bare the fact that he has a better life and I need to ruin his life.

//Removed Profanity -Brigby

babar3355

How would it in any way be fair to let all of the long time QB grinders convert all of their runes to crafting tokens?

To use Ohboy's analogy, most of us weren't saving up frequent flyer miles because we didn't care to go to Europe or planed on getting their in a different manner.  Now we can convert frequent flyer miles into gold?

Anyway, it's funny that you are "reading things that just aren't there" into the above comment (which is using D3's typical hedged language) when you would greatly profit from converting the runes you primarily DID NOT get from converting duplicates.  Seems a bit self serving is all.

Steeme

Hey @khurram and @losdamianos, no-one is actually advocating that the players should auto-convert into runes and lose their dupes, you're pretty much doin' the strawman right now.

We are asking to buy into the new system, to trade runes into tokens.  If you didn't already convert, you get the tokens anyways, if you have converted, you can unconvert back into tokens.  It's fair for everyone.  No-one is bringing anyone else down.

mournfen

Everyone vying to get tokens to get better cards are already in top coalitions (mostly). This has nothing to do with choices made in the past because future is ambiguous in this particular situation. Since a system does in fact exist, you all just decided to be defiant and fight what is.  It becomes unfair because no one knew we would be able to craft cards essentially. Your neighbor analogy terrible, your neighbor earned wealth through work within the system, not crying because it isn't fair. Stop throwing the term social justice warrior around when you clearly have no idea what it is as it holds zero merit in the context which you are using it. 

Let me translate to real life for you. A system is in-place everything you worked for and acquired was under that system, you refuse to use said system, your fault. If the convert your dupes to runes they still hold value PWs will be released in the future, deck slots to get in the future. It completely voids the top coalition racket you had going for mythics when it was a reward. 

If anyone is pressuring it is those that holds hundreds of mythics, because you avoid spending any money. You continue a system of closed competition. Those in top coalitions are there based on their cards. So rather than make you work to maintain, you just get it because you are you? Really not for communism or socialism, what about totalitarianism, because that is what you advocating.  "Create super coalitions with me in charge," have you ever rotated yourself out? 

PS European vacation is amazing, I go every year! 

babar3355

Steeme said:

Hey @khurram and @losdamianos, no-one is actually advocating that the players should auto-convert into runes and lose their dupes, you're pretty much doin' the strawman right now.

We are asking to buy into the new system, to trade runes into tokens.  If you didn't already convert, you get the tokens anyways, if you have converted, you can unconvert back into tokens.  It's fair for everyone.  No-one is bringing anyone else down.

That seems like a really odd position to take after you said this when the question of should dupe's be autoconverted came up last month:

"Yes (I have some dupes but happy for a fresh start for all)

I voted Yes in general, for the sake of balance in the economy.  It's unhealthy to allow a small group of players to get such a huge advantage over the rest of the playerbase.  Assumption, of course, is that the new dupe conversion system will allow greater access to cards in the game."

Now you want people who were grinding QB for the past 2 years to convert their 2,000,000+ runes into crafting tokens?  Or do you think D3 can/will disconnect converted runes from runes received in other ways?

losdamianos

Steeme said:

Hey @khurram and @losdamianos, no-one is actually advocating that the players should auto-convert into runes and lose their dupes, you're pretty much doin' the strawman right now.

We are asking to buy into the new system, to trade runes into tokens.  If you didn't already convert, you get the tokens anyways, if you have converted, you can unconvert back into tokens.  It's fair for everyone.  No-one is bringing anyone else down.

Okay man, maybe there was some miscommunication and I wasnt sure about your intensions but Im pretty sure if you go back everyone was advocation to forceably convert all dupes to start everyone on the same plate,
Should D3 allow us to convert runes to Tokens ?
NOPE, you can get unlimited amount (limited by your time) of runes in Heroic Battles if you allow conversion to tokens system will get dilluted pretty quickly  

mournfen said:

. Your neighbor analogy terrible, your neighbor earned wealth through work within the system, not crying because it isn't fair. 

My neighbor earned his wealth through the series of good decisions and choices he made in the past I must say some of them were very controversial, You can frame it however you want but the fact is that his past choices led him to his wealth. Crying that this isnt fair is everybody else not as rich as him (social justice warriors).

Fiddler

Why wouldn't they let us buy tokens with runes in addition to converting duplicates to tokens? Seems to me it would reduce both rune and duplicate stockpiles significantly. And if you are out of runes to level new PWs; and out of duplicates to craft non-duplicates, then you are in a position where it is very tempting to spend money on that new card set or PW.

Steeme

babar3355 said:

Steeme said:

Hey @khurram and @losdamianos, no-one is actually advocating that the players should auto-convert into runes and lose their dupes, you're pretty much doin' the strawman right now.

We are asking to buy into the new system, to trade runes into tokens.  If you didn't already convert, you get the tokens anyways, if you have converted, you can unconvert back into tokens.  It's fair for everyone.  No-one is bringing anyone else down.

That seems like a really odd position to take after you said this when the question of should dupe's be autoconverted came up last month:

"Yes (I have some dupes but happy for a fresh start for all)

I voted Yes in general, for the sake of balance in the economy.  It's unhealthy to allow a small group of players to get such a huge advantage over the rest of the playerbase.  Assumption, of course, is that the new dupe conversion system will allow greater access to cards in the game."

Now you want people who were grinding QB for the past 2 years to convert their 2,000,000+ runes into crafting tokens?  Or do you think D3 can/will disconnect converted runes from runes received in other ways?

Oh goody, I'll bite!

Yes, you are pulling a Shteev right now.  Going back and pulling quotes out of context.  I'm going to have fun with this one because it is so far out of context that it's in a different universe.

The parts that you're missing, my friend:

1. "Standard" did not exist at the time.  So greater access to cards had a direct correlation with having an advantage over others.  That's not the case anymore.  If we did not have the Standard restriction, then my prior stance would remain, and as such no player should be able to convert into the system.  That's a moot point now.

2. They announced that players with existing dupes can convert into non-standard tokens.  This means that it will in fact not affect the economy at all.  So if you read through the posts where they made this announcement, you will get to read the post I wrote (that you omitted to include of course) which states that I was happy that a compromise was made for people hoarding their cards, and that I think the fair thing to do now is make the same type of compromise for those oblivious to the impending crafting system.

3. Where did I say the rune conversion system would be unlimited?  If anything, I'm advocating a system that lets you "unconvert" back into tokens, which seems to imply that you can only reclaim runes which were obtained from conversion.  I take it you don't work in the software industry and/or don't have a technical background. But in the land of any business that handles client data and transactions, information is stored in a database.  They can write a query which lists the transactions that converted to runes.  If that data isn't available (which would actually be quite frightening), then you can impose some other type of limit.

babar3355

To be fair I did ask if you expected D3 to deconvert.  I don't think they will spend their resources doing that, even if there weren't gobs of issues.  Such as, if I converted and used the runes to level a PW which helped me win an event would those cards be replaceable with the deconversion?  What if I have new runes to replace them at this time but not enough at the time of conversion?  All of this is silly.  There is no way that D3 would do something like this. 

Not sure why you think it is so out of context either.  I wasn't aware that you had adjusted your position on dupe conversion.  You changed your mind given new information, which I thought it was interesting.  Instead of a 4 paragraph, disparaging response you could have just said "I changed my views once details of the conversion were announced"