Star-Lord Bit of Both not destroying Charged Tiles

Jaedenkaal

Given the tile definitions given HERE, Bit of Both should destroy Charged tiles in the columns, as they are not friendly tiles.

Currently Charged tiles are not destroyed by Bit of Both, so either the power is not working correctly, or the description is not correct.

Tombstone

Hey there Jaedenkaal, I checked within our database and can confirm that there is a report in for this issue. So rest assured that this interaction with Bit of Both and Charged tiles is being looked into.

Dayv

This seems to me like a deliberate choice they forgot to include in the skill's description.  I don't think any power has treated charged tiles as friendly before, but it would make sense for a character who creates them to have a skill that avoids them.

DrDevilDinosaur

Dayv said:

This seems to me like a deliberate choice they forgot to include in the skill's description.  I don't think any power has treated charged tiles as friendly before, but it would make sense for a character who creates them to have a skill that avoids them.

Charged tiles do actually belong to a team. This was first noticed when Switch was first added to the game. At Rank her Hex bolt can destroy "non-friendly" tiles, and can potentially destroy charged tiles created by enemy powers but not those from friendlies.

Bit of Both leaves any friendly tiles when destroying columns, so this behaviour seems to be in-line with how similar abilities have worked in the past.

Jaedenkaal

I'm fine with that being true, except that Charged tiles specifically state "not owned by either team"

DrDevilDinosaur

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm fine with that being true, except that Charged tiles specifically state "not owned by either team"

In English, the description on a charged tile reads "Either team can shatter this tile to do triple damage and earn triple AP for this tile." - so there is no reference to the tile being owned.

Do you have the game set to use a different language? I know there have been cases in the past where power descriptions were translated with significantly different meaning to what was intended.

Jaedenkaal

The D3 web guide to tile types specifically calls out charged tiles as being neutral. The link is in my OP.

Dayv

DrDevilDinosaur said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm fine with that being true, except that Charged tiles specifically state "not owned by either team"

In English, the description on a charged tile reads "Either team can shatter this tile to do triple damage and earn triple AP for this tile." - so there is no reference to the tile being owned.

Please note, you are agreeing with each other: charged tiles are explicitly stated in more than one place to be neutral, or unowned, and thus are not "friendly".DrDevilDinosaur said:

Charged tiles do actually belong to a team. This was first noticed when Switch was first added to the game. At Rank her Hex bolt can destroy "non-friendly" tiles, and can potentially destroy charged tiles created by enemy powers but not those from friendlies.

I've never seen a thread about this on the forum, but there was a fair while in there where I wandered off and had other hobbies.

How thoroughly was this tested?  To really prove this point, you'd pretty much have to first verify it can destroy charged tiles, then make enough charged tiles -- using friendly abilities only -- to create a spot on the board where there's a basic tile with fewer than four non-charged tiles around it, prove it destroyed fewer than four surrounding tiles, and of course make sure the tester was specced to five green the whole time which few players spec SW at.

On top of that, this completely unnecessary bit of "ownership" info on charged tiles -- which is not represented in any way visually and, per all known in-game and external D3 documentation, has no ownership intended -- then needs to continue to be maintained in code for over two years and only just now be revealed by this skill?

To me, Occam's Razor shows us the way.  The simplest answer is usually correct: Star-Lord green skips both friendly tiles and charged tiles, but the in-game description omits the second fact.

DrDevilDinosaur

Sorry, I think I wasn't quite clear. The point I was making is that Charged tiles are owned by a team, but the game doesn't actually provide this information to the player.

The in-game description merely states that either team can gain the bonus damage/AP.

SWitch's Hex Bolt (Rank 5) destroy's "non-friendly" (i.e. neutral and enemy) tiles. It will shatter an enemy charged tile but not a friendly tile. I'll be honest, I haven't done this in a long time since I keep her at 5/3/5, but I could run some tests to see if this has changed.

I guess my Occam's Razor indicates that the power is working exactly as intended - and in-line with similar powers already in the game. The information in the web guide is the only piece of contradictory information, so I see it as being wrong.

Jaedenkaal

Ok, I tested, and I can confirm that rank 5 Hex-bolt does not destroy Charged tiles (that I created). I can't rule out the possibility that the ability simply doesn't destroy Charged tiles at all, as I have not been able to test against an opponent who creates them (where's Ragnarok when you need him)

Jaedenkaal

Well, I have also now tested using rank 5 Hex Bolt to destroy "enemy" charged tiles, and...


it works o.O

Ruinate

The Scarlet Witch thing is old and DrDevilDIno is correct.  Charge tiles ARE owned.

Does Starlord destroy charge tiles created by the enemy?

Jaedenkaal

That I have not been able to test.

DrDevilDinosaur

It's much of a muchness whether Bit of Both destroys enemy charged tiles or not - the power specifically states that it does not generate AP or deal damage for those. The reason the SWitch thing is important is that Hex Bolt does generate AP from tiles destroyed.

As it stands, I kinda like that firing Bit of Both immediately after Something Good can often clump a lot of friendly charged tiles to the bottom of the board together for huge cascade potential (which does deal damage and generate AP).


Ultimately, I guess this gets chalked up as another case where power descriptions really need to be made very clear (bring in keywords!!).

Ruinate

I just don't want Starlord destroying any charged tiles no matter who created them.  He needs all the help he can get

turul

Just a note, Gamora4* does not count "friendly" charged tiles in her passive

Dayv

What skills are being used to create the charged tiles in these tests?  Just thinking out loud, I could imagine 4* Thor yellow converting enemy special tiles to charged tiles, but failing to remove their ownership information, for example.

Jaedenkaal

For my tests, I used 4* Thor for both "friendly" and "enemy" charged tiles. Striking Distance was not used, as I recall.