boycott trial of zeal

exosect

Do not miss understand, I love the change to a standard format, it was a necessary and inevitable development, but it was stated in the release notes for this change that the PvE events would not be in standard format. Given the number of mythics and rares stacked into PvE challenge events this made sense.....most of us do not, and will never have, all or most of the top mythics and rares for standard format, also it allowed us a format where we could just go crazy building unrestricted decks.

But trial of zeal is in standard, despite what we were told 

I say no, stand with me and boycott this event, and any other PvE events that are not open/unrestricted.

madwren

This is not meant to detract from your frustration, but in the pre-release notes it was clearly stated that PVE events would be Legacy, EXCEPT for the coalition challenges. Trial of Zeal is one of those. I'm certainly a vocal critic of them, but in this case they spoke the truth.

exosect

There is no reason for a PvE event to be a coalition challenge, there is no rank/standing in them....I submitt they made it one as a work around to what they stated, and nothing more, and it won't be the only one they do that way unfortunately 

shteev

Start another thread about boycotting it based on the fact that beating it with Cycling is dull as ditchwater. I'll join that one.

madwren

It's a PVE event, yes, but you accrue coalition points and receive coalition rewards. That's what sets it apart from other PVE events like OGW, BFZ, the new Fateful Showdown, etc. Those are all "solitaire" PVE events.

Just to warn you, the new Inventor's Fair/Breaking Points clone, Trial of Strength, will also be a coalition challenge and therefore Standard.

exosect

I assumed so, essentially what they should have said is all new events will be standard, only the old ones will be open. I used to enjoy the PvE events, they were difficult and challenging, but actually doable, without broken combos like cycling, atleast they used to be

James13

People are too entrenched in the past 

Steeme

James13 said:

People are too entrenched in the past 

That's not the issue at all.

The issue is that since AKH was just released, and due to this blindsiding of Standard being applied to all current events, and not just PVP, the only way to even complete the event is to buy all the cards up front.

That's simply a back-handed money-making model.  Create an immediate need and force everyone to cough it up.

The correct (and moral) thing to do would be to allow everyone to use their entire library, but add in optional objectives that restrict your deck.

For example:

Objective 1:  Win the match!

Objective 2:  Include four cards with Cycle in your deck!

Objective 3:  Include four cards with Embalm in your deck!

Now, if you want to get full points, you need 4 cards with Embalm and 4 cards with Cycle.  No easy feat, and obviously requires accessing AKH cards (and definitely some deckbuilding skills).

For more casual players, they can clearly just shoot for Objective 1, using any cards from their library.

voodoo_gremlin

This at be happening anyway. There have been five cycles and it's down to 89 %. It should be 50-60% by now. People are clearly fed up with the event.

Froggy

I guess I'm not a person then. ????

Im happy with the event.

Thuran

Not planning to boycot anything. Frankly I really like that the third node is actually that hard to beat! It means there is room for improving and the node becoming gradually easier over time. 

It would really suck if you were able to just faceroll the hardest pve content in the game after a week of Amonkhet >< I'm guessing these are the same people that complain LFR mode in wow in too hard, because they just want free wins.

Yes, the fights are ridiculous and if you cannot simply cheese the fight, you are in for one hell of a challenge. But you know what? It is really refreshing to actually see people discuss ways to beat certain nodes and trying to figure out which strategies can work, and for the same reason it feels like an achievement when you manage to take down 3.3! 

So far I'm loving this event! 

Spiritwalker

Thuran said:

actually see people discuss ways to beat certain nodes and trying to figure out which strategies can work

I respect your point of view regarding the challenge.

But I'd love to be pointed out a somewhat reliable strategy that does NOT rely on locking down his board in some way or another. All I see is dovin hixus/cast out/cycling. 

Fun meta.

Froggy

Spiritwalker said:

But I'd love to be pointed out a somewhat reliable strategy that does NOT rely on locking down his board in some way or another. All I see is dovin hixus/cast out/cycling. 

Fun meta.

Tezz2:
Herald of Anguish
Syndicate Trafficker 

Blightcaster
Insidious Will
Inderhanded Designs
Claustrophobia
Sphinx's Tutelage 
Trial of Ambition

Final Reward
Day's Undoing (this one actually being the least used and thinking of replacing it out).

There - a different way. My coalition members run very different decks. And yes, we give those tier 3 bosses their fair share of beating. MTGGOLDFISH.

shteev

Froggy said:

Spiritwalker said:

But I'd love to be pointed out a somewhat reliable strategy that does NOT rely on locking down his board in some way or another. All I see is dovin hixus/cast out/cycling. 

Fun meta.

Tezz2:
Herald of Anguish
Syndicate Trafficker 

Blightcaster
Insidious Will
Inderhanded Designs
Claustrophobia
Sphinx's Tutelage 
Trial of Ambition

Final Reward
Day's Undoing (this one actually being the least used and thinking of replacing it out).

There - a different way. My coalition members run very different decks. And yes, we give those tier 3 bosses their fair share of beating. MTGGOLDFISH.

Not much lockdown going on there, certainly!

Spiritwalker

Froggy said:

reasonable, thanks for sharing. 

Again though, it seems to me that locking down the board is the primary goal of this strategy. 

Aggro is dead. Big creatures are worthless. Non-exile removal is practically useless (at least in 3.1, which is generally what I'm referring to in this post). 

Against 3.1 RatC it was viable to play koth, toss down a few big threats and remove the angels creatures if needed, let defenders/berserkers take care of smaller threats. You could trade card for card and in the end you would come out on top. 

I see your deck, and I see the ones using cast out. All of them rely on the same idea: Play very few cards yourself to blank the many more cards he plays. If you can just disintegrate on of his temmet's, it's simply not good enough, he'll just come back. If you play a metalworks colossus, chances are it won't even trade for one of his creatures because they'll be to large due to his ability. And even if it does, embalm brings them right back and he keeps pumping them. Might as well use incubator drone (if we could), at least it chump blocks twice. 

I'm an avid MTG paper player and I know that trading cards efficiently is what wins you games. And I know that trading effectively was always part of MTGPQ as well, as it should be. 

But we've come to a point where a card is no longer viable unless it manages to effectively negate multiple cards cast by for example temmet. Why is cast out so good? Because three of them can essentially blank every single creature he will play for the rest of the game. Same applies for your strategy to a lesser extent - it relies on getting down herald/blightcaster and spamming token supports to kill just about anything he throws onto the board. 

A card should be playable if it can trade one for one, should be great if it can negate two threats and amazing if it does any more than that. I feel like this was the case in RatC, all the way up to tezzeret. 

If the only way to win is relying on very few specific cards that essentially manage to build a 'prison' which will void any of the opponents further draw steps at very little cost for you, then I feel like we have some serious balance issues.

Froggy

shteev said:

Froggy said:

Spiritwalker said:

But I'd love to be pointed out a somewhat reliable strategy that does NOT rely on locking down his board in some way or another. All I see is dovin hixus/cast out/cycling. 

Fun meta.

Tezz2:
Herald of Anguish
Syndicate Trafficker 

Blightcaster
Insidious Will
Inderhanded Designs
Claustrophobia
Sphinx's Tutelage 
Trial of Ambition

Final Reward
Day's Undoing (this one actually being the least used and thinking of replacing it out).

There - a different way. My coalition members run very different decks. And yes, we give those tier 3 bosses their fair share of beating. MTGGOLDFISH.

Not much lockdown going on there, certainly!

More than you can imagine...

Lockdown while ramping my own creatures. Tezz2 2nd ability is first, then 3rd ability. Just completed 3.2 unscathed. Samut got creatures on the board alright. But they were gone before my turn was up.

That is easily done with Blightcaster on the board and the construct here to generate 2 servo supports. Each servo destroyed gives -2/-2 with Herald in play, not to mention -10 for any destroyed support with Tezz2's final ability. When the creature is locked by claustrophobia, he really does not last. And if needed, I could summon 2 more supports with Tezz's first ability.

Lockdown - very much. But in its own way. And that destroy support kills a creature. AND Herald discard's the last card in the opponent's hand, eventually leaving him empty handed. Any cascade will only result in one card played by the opponent.

And that my friends, is why I keep saying - DECK BUILDING!!!

EDIT: And forgot to mention, but every destroyed servo or Support gives Syndicate Trafficker +2/+2.

hawkyh1

Spiritwalker said:

Thuran said:

actually see people discuss ways to beat certain nodes and trying to figure out which strategies can work

I respect your point of view regarding the challenge.

But I'd love to be pointed out a somewhat reliable strategy that does NOT rely on locking down his board in some way or another. All I see is dovin hixus/cast out/cycling. 

Fun meta.

only reliable way of not using lock down I know
is to use rhonas + mantle of webs + big creature
(preferably gaea's revenge) (need also support
removal). it takes an op/broken card or more to
beat a deck of masterpieces powered from crazy
mana gains. this is the developers way of saying
you need a mythic god card that was amongst
the elite pack.

HH 

Laeuftbeidir

Oketra works, too.

I was kind of surprised, that 3.2 and 3.3 were a lot easier to beat (not easy! But surely not as difficult as 3.1) after getting temmet down. They both felt like tezzeret level..
By the way : I actually tried 3.1 with tezzeret, and nearly exactly the same strategy (change padeem for the herald, more supports per turn).. Lasted 4 rounds until i was completely overrun. Dovin Baan did the trick

madwren

Froggy said:

And that my friends, is why I keep saying - DECK BUILDING!!!

I like your deck, Froggy---I have run one very similar--but people struggling for ways to beat the challenge probably don't have Herald of Anguish or Syndicate Trafficker lying around.

Like many PVE events, the challenges are made a lot easier by owning specific mythics. "Deck building" is not necessarily a constructive answer to those individuals who don't have silver bullets in their chamber--and moreover, do not have a way to obtain them.  The difference between someone with Hixus or Herald or Dynavolt compared to someone with Padeem or Yahenni or Verdurous Gearhulk is fairly profound, especially in events like this.

voodoo_gremlin

Froggy said:

Tezz2:
Herald of Anguish
Syndicate Trafficker 

Blightcaster
Insidious Will
Inderhanded Designs
Claustrophobia
Sphinx's Tutelage 
Trial of Ambition

Final Reward
Day's Undoing (this one actually being the least used and thinking of replacing it out).

There - a different way. My coalition members run very different decks. And yes, we give those tier 3 bosses their fair share of beating. MTGGOLDFISH.

I have I don't have 
Heral
Insidious WIll
Trial of Ambition
or Days Undoing

How do you win then????

Froggy

voodoo_gremlin said:

Froggy said:

Tezz2:
Herald of Anguish
Syndicate Trafficker 

Blightcaster
Insidious Will
Inderhanded Designs
Claustrophobia
Sphinx's Tutelage 
Trial of Ambition

Final Reward
Day's Undoing (this one actually being the least used and thinking of replacing it out).

There - a different way. My coalition members run very different decks. And yes, we give those tier 3 bosses their fair share of beating. MTGGOLDFISH.

I have I don't have 
Heral
Insidious WIll
Trial of Ambition
or Days Undoing

How do you win then????

I ask my 20 other friends in my coalition for assistance and work out how they do it. Most of them are making it through the 3rd tier bosses and not another member in my coalition has the same cards as I do (only 2 others own Herald for example). So I can't answer your question, but I was merely hoping to shed some light on the fact that it can be done.