Heroes for Hire: the HP vs CP debate

Dormammu

When the CP resource was first added I was a little annoyed by the addition of yet another resource and its obscure rarity. It basically put the acquisition of 5-star covers beyond even the whales (maybe that's a good thing, I don't know, but it still annoyed me), but the thing I disliked most about CP was that it replaced HP as a way of buying covers for a color you had at least one of. If I had a 12-cover character at 5/5/2 and rotten luck with RNG, I was willing to throw some money at the game, buy that 13th cover with the HP I bought, and end the RNG frustration of wasted covers. CP basically eliminated that option, or at least slowed that option to a crawl.

Now Heroes for Hire is here and gives us a cost-inflated, inefficient way to do what we used to do before the change (more HP, limited to a specific color). It makes me feel like this game is going in circles, but with every loop around things get worse. Why not go back to being able to purchase two, three, and four star covers with HP? It would help alleviate the pain vaulting has produced when trying to cover older characters, while still generating revenue for the game.

I love this game, and I am always willing to hold my opinion off until I give any new change a shot, but the decisions made in the last 6 months are just mind-boggling and this particular issue has been eating away at me. I needed to put a voice to it (so I apologize if it sounds like I'm a negative complainer).

crackninja

I don't recall how many HP's those covers used to cost, so maybe I'm just a sucker, but assuming you get the 2500 HP offers (granted, big assumption), I LOVE heroes for hire purchases as an efficient way to get a specific cover, especially a cover you didn't previously have...I'm looking at you iceman green.  It's not at all efficient for general 4* coverage/multiple purchases per week.
To your point though, yes, there's a deja vu factor here.  The thing that keeps me positive is that as a whole I think we're in a far better place now than a year ago, baffling decisions be damned.

Jaedenkaal

As I recall/have read elsewhere, one 4* cover cost 2500 HP to boost by one level, and you had to have at least one level in it already.

Heroes for Hire (the 2500 HP version; I'm not touching that debate) gives you the cover for the same amount, plus some other stuff (including a CP, which isn't nothing). AND, you don't have to even own that cover to buy it. Heck, you don't even need to own the character. So I think calling it "cost-inflated" is pretty misleading (again, talking about the 2500 HP store). 

Sure, there's a disadvantage that you have to wait for your character/cover combo to come around, but that is at least a predictable cycle (a ~140 day cycle presently, I grant you).

Dormammu

Jaedenkaal said:

As I recall/have read elsewhere, one 4* cover cost 2500 HP to boost by one level.

So I think calling it "cost-inflated" is pretty misleading (again, talking about the 2500 HP store). 

You're probably right. I remember it being cheaper, but my memory is probably of buying 3-star covers. It wasn't my intention to be misleading. I don't really have a problem with the cost, but making all 3 and 4-star colors available to buy at any time with HP seems like a reasonable solution to the lack of colorless covers. Maybe it opens a door to whaling I'd rather not see opened, I don't know...

Jaedenkaal

Hm. At 2500 HP a pop it would cost me about $1,900 CAD to fully champ a 4* from nothing. Assuming no buy clubs, and assuming the HfH store works the same as today aside from the multi-buy ability, I'd also end up with ~212 CP, 452 elite tokens, and 452,000 ISO (Hey, that's enough ISO to level and champ this character too, that's handy)

I've only spent about ~$120 on this game in total, so I have no idea if that's a good deal. I suspect it probably is, although I can't see myself ever considering it.

If they offered the same store, but with a choice of color (still only one purchase per day) that would be nice. Would also reduce the full "cycle" time to a much more sane sounding ~45 days, which is about as long as the 3* TBE cycle is.

mpqr7

For me, with 45 championed 4*s (and Mordo coming in a few weeks), I have literally NO reason to ever buy a 4* cover. There will never be a single time when having one extra cover for a 4* is worth it for me. I have plenty of other characters I can use instead.

And the fact that for me, it costs 3600 HP is an even bigger insult. It should be less expensive for me, not more, because it's not valuable at all. For it to be worth it to me, it must be less expensive than the champion reward I would get for using that extra cover, so it needs to be less expensive than 500 iso, 50 hp, 3 cp, etc.

Jaedenkaal

mpqr7 said:

For it to be worth it to me, it must be less expensive than the champion reward I would get for using that extra cover, so it needs to be less expensive than 500 iso, 50 hp, 3 cp, etc.

In fairness, you are not the target audience of this store, at all, in any way. (At the very least it is for people who are willing to wait a month or so for a cover, which you clearly do not do) 

And there's no chance they'll sell a guaranteed cover for a net profit to the player, never mind the fact that you're getting more than just that cover from the store.

scottee

It was 2500 HP.

The only two I ever bought were the 4th and 5th blue covers for Professor X when winfinite dominated. It helped make my life a lot easier during that era, and I don't mind that I had to save up for it as a f2p player. 

It was never a good deal in comparison to roster slots, but once you get HP positive as a f2p player, there's nothing else to spend it on (except daily token deals?).

Jaedenkaal

scottee said:

It was 2500 HP.

The only two I ever bought were the 4th and 5th blue covers for Professor X when winfinite dominated. It helped make my life a lot easier during that era, and I don't mind that I had to save up for it as a f2p player. 

It was never a good deal in comparison to roster slots, but once you get HP positive as a f2p player, there's nothing else to spend it on (except daily token deals?).

And PVP shields.

I think HfH even beats the daily deals for targeted characters, although at a certain level of HP income there's no reason not to do both.

DapperChewie

mpqr7 said:

For me, with 45 championed 4*s (and Mordo coming in a few weeks), I have literally NO reason to ever buy a 4* cover. There will never be a single time when having one extra cover for a 4* is worth it for me. I have plenty of other characters I can use instead.

And the fact that for me, it costs 3600 HP is an even bigger insult. It should be less expensive for me, not more, because it's not valuable at all. For it to be worth it to me, it must be less expensive than the champion reward I would get for using that extra cover, so it needs to be less expensive than 500 iso, 50 hp, 3 cp, etc.

I bought a Iceman cover from it. Not even my 13tg,just figured he doesn't come around enough and he's the one top tier 4 not in packs that I don't have covered well. 

I think the 2500hp is an acceptable price for what you get, but I wish you could pick the color.

MissChinch

Theres been a massive change in the influx of HP, so its not surprising if we see inflation...  Its not inflation like you would see in an actual economy, but with all the additional means of acquiring ISO/HP its not the least bit surprising that the cost to buy a cover with HP would have gone up when they re-addressed it in this new store.

As to the question of going back to purchasing covers with HP...  its hard to puzzle out, but it did have the benefit of loosening the coupling of HP to cover acquisition while they tinkered with ways to give out more HP (championing, increased iso for more rewards, intercepts with random HP prizes, VIP etc...) 

Its a longshot but I could see giving them the credit for having the foresight to say "Hey hey hey, wait a sec, before we go tinkering with all this HP stuff, do you think we should switch over cover buys to CP?  You know just in case we get the rates wrong we wont be completely hosing the player inventory landscape...?"

I see no reason why covers shouldn't be able to be bought by HP, provided they're willing to tweak cover prices as HP supply fluctuates...

Khanwulf

The cost of the HtH pack is irresponsible in light of the cost of VIP. Compare the value obtained from both and you see how much of a shaft HtH gives you for being able to "choose" the 4* cover (note no chance of 5*), plus immediacy of rewards.

Until they bring some sanity into this it will remain an option for well-heeled suckers, or the truly desperate.

--Khanwulf

Starfury

I still maintain that for a F2P game, this game offers shockingly little of value for veterans to purchase.

ISO is priced so ridiculously that it's just not an option and once you've gotten over the initial HP hump, you earn more hp than you can spend on.

Vaulting has also made buying 4* covers less important:
Why fret over the 13th cover of a vaulted character who'll never get past level 275 anyway, and if you need a cover for a latest 12, chances are minimal, it'll turn up within 14 days.

So apart from unlocking post-match rewards (or ad-less Intercepts until today) there's no reason to spend any money on the game.

Gregore

What is this 2500?  Mine cost 3600!

DaveR4470

At my current rate of acquisition (which, given the change in intercepts, will probably change in the near future), it takes me about 3-4 weeks or thereabouts to get 2500-3500 HP.  Which, functionally, can only be used on H4H and shields.  It would take me at LEAST twice as long -- and probably more -- to get 120 CP, and the opportunity cost of doing so would be 5 random 4 or 5* covers.

So yeah, big fan of H4H.  Didn't think I'd ever use it; have already bought 4 covers that significantly improved my gameplay.

Jaedenkaal

Khanwulf said:

The cost of the HtH pack is irresponsible in light of the cost of VIP. Compare the value obtained from both and you see how much of a shaft HtH gives you for being able to "choose" the 4* cover (note no chance of 5*), plus immediacy of rewards.

Until they bring some sanity into this it will remain an option for well-heeled suckers, or the truly desperate.

--Khanwulf

Show me how you can buy VIP for hero points, and then we'll talk.