Has the power creep gone too far?

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 0 Match Maker
in MtGPQ General Discussion
I came back to the game recently after a 3 month break.

Im not a pro but I was a whale and I'm in platinum. I used to enjoy matching gems and getting the creatures out and having a good fight, but all I've done recently is watch Kiora and Koth make endless cascades, play, redraw and refill and then replay their entire hand several times.

Mythic, mythic, mythic, masterpiece, mythic.
Every game, the same cards. The same Planeswalkers.

Every match I spend several turns working on a suspiciously unfavorable board to bring out a single creature or support only to have it reliably and immediately deleted by cheap removal spells and catastrophic board-cleaning gem cascades by the AI player.

I do hate to moan but I really can't say I'm having much fun and it is supposed to be a game, not a job. Maybe I'll leave it another few months and try again.

Comments

  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    It was announced that we will have events soon, that will restrict the cards that can be used or that will restrict your deck building choices.
    For example only cards from Origin and Amoketh (or how that is written) are allowed for a event deck (yes, with that they will try to fuel the economic engine... I would be surprised if they would put any focus on older releases) are allowed in an event or you have to have 5 creatures from a certain type in your deck etc...

    I don't know if that will help, but a lot of the powercreep cards are home in SOI. If that set is banned, than things will look different, I guess.
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    As hinted above, it is not really powercreep since a lot of the most ridiculous cards are from older sets. More recent sets have actually done a lot to tone the power back down, except on walkers.

    Of course amonkhet might ruin that, we will have to wait and see next week when the set comes out.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Match Maker
    Splitting decks by blocks might be a good idea.

    Last night I spent over an hour stuck in a perpetual stalemate against an Ob Nix using Gonti's Aether Heart to get endless swaps and fill his hand with fully-charged SOI removal spells faster than I could get the creatures out.

    As soon as I cast a creature it would immediately get disabled by deadlock trap and then deleted by a SOI or EM spell (that's if Insidious Will wasn't on the board).
    If I couldn't cast a creature fast enough my entire hand would get discarded by Lost Legacy and all the mana I collected was lost.
    Every support was Fragmented or conveniently popped in two turns.

    Tldr:
    Feels like a combination of cheap SOI removal spells and efficient Kaladesh supports/energise shenanigans makes it really difficult to play.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Power creep is real, yes, but in platinum almost everyone is a good enough player who can craft a good enough deck that can ruin your day. At least, against the opponents we lose to. 
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor

    Don't worry, you're not moaning.

    In terms of power creep, it's unavoidable due to the nature of cross-pollinating blocks of cards.  It's incredibly tedious to balance cards within a set with all the existing cards available.  Most card games attack this problem by limiting play to the current "Standard" rotation of cards.  I hope we will see this soon.

    It's also not just power creep that is an issue, the AI script has some issues:

    1. The AI is not trying to win the match in a timely manner.  It can and will take an infinite amount of time if allowed to do so.

    2. The AI has rigid rules on when to use loyalty abilities.  If the player has built a deck that relies on the Ultimate loyalty ability, it is a poorly constructed deck in the hands of the AI.

    Due to the inherent issues, you will have some matches that are not enjoyable at all.  There have been matches that I ended up losing but felt like it was a hard-fought defeat where I identified some of my deck weaknesses, and thus quite enjoyable.  Then there are others of course where I win the match after watching my opponent spin in circles for 20 minutes, and these are just painful matches as nothing is learned and time is just completely wasted.


    For your particular issue with Ob Nix, or any other opponent relying on kill spells to grief you to the high heavens, I find packing a couple cheap chumpers (Solemn Recruit, Kari Zhev, Lone Rider, Devil's Playground, etc.) helps draw out kill spells and/or takes the first creature slot to be the candidate for disable mechanics.  Discards are always advisable if you're splashing black (Infinite Obliteration / Transgress).

    Finally, the cards really make the deck.  When you obtain key cards, you open up viable possibilities.  For example, once I obtained Behold the Beyond, it basically made all of my black decks viable.  Without it, I find it's hard to keep pace with the AI.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Match Maker
    shteev said:
    Steeme said:

    In terms of power creep, it's unavoidable due to the nature of cross-pollinating blocks of cards.
    Bollocks.

    This is what power creep looks like:

    Red gets no good cards which gain life.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit better.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit better.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit better.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit better.
    Red gets some cards that gain life a bit better.

    And this is what's happened in this game:

    Red gets no good cards which gain life.
    Red gets Olivia.

    And this is also what power creep looks like:

    Blue gets no good cards which gain mana.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.
    Blue gets some cards that gain mana a bit better.

    And this is what's happened in this game:

    Blue gets no good cards which gain mana.
    Blue gets Startled Awake.

    'Power creep' is unavoidable, IF you print wildly overpowered cards and then refuse to fix them.

    What was the succession of cards which grew in power leading up to Behold the Beyond, or Deploy the Gatewatch? There wasn't one. They came out of nowhere, and they were clearly overpowered. Hibernum doesn't think that it's players are clever enough to spot when cards are more powerful than other cards, so it has to break them in order to make them look attractive. And, dyou know what? They're probably right... there were certainly proponents of the idea that old Baral was not broken amoungst the players. The uncomfortable truth, tho, is that if they balance cards around what inexperienced or unwise players think, they're going to get a very broken game.
    You might be onto something there. Less like PowerCreep and more like PowerLeap.
    Unfortunately for us it's a strong (but unsustainable) way to fuel sales
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    Was Startled Awake or Behold the Beyond offered for sale? Better tell Killwind he missed the chance to buy them!
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, I actually think its poor design rather than greed from D3/Hiberium.  They did sell a few overpowered cards like Olivia and Baral... but they didn't offer most of the really broken cards (BtB, Startled Awake, Rishkarsex, Exert, Engulf the Shore, etc) for purchase.   In fact, they rarely seem to sell anything other than creatures...   And for every Olivia we seem to get 5-10 Depalas. Terretorial Gorgers, or Bristling Hydras for sale.

    It reeks of lousy designers rather than intentional power creep (leap). 

  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    One other factor is that you now face the actual decks which other players are using in an event.  Before, in Quick Battle, you might have been paired against some random pile of cards I was playing in story mode to get spell mastery.  Now, you're playing against a deck which is designed to compete.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Drycha said:
    Splitting decks by blocks might be a good idea.

    Last night I spent over an hour stuck in a perpetual stalemate against an Ob Nix using Gonti's Aether Heart to get endless swaps and fill his hand with fully-charged SOI removal spells faster than I could get the creatures out.

    As soon as I cast a creature it would immediately get disabled by deadlock trap and then deleted by a SOI or EM spell (that's if Insidious Will wasn't on the board).
    If I couldn't cast a creature fast enough my entire hand would get discarded by Lost Legacy and all the mana I collected was lost.
    Every support was Fragmented or conveniently popped in two turns.

    Tldr:
    Feels like a combination of cheap SOI removal spells and efficient Kaladesh supports/energise shenanigans makes it really difficult to play.
    Quick question. How'd Ob Nixilis get Insidious Will into his deck? ;)
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    wereotter said:
    Drycha said:
    Splitting decks by blocks might be a good idea.

    Last night I spent over an hour stuck in a perpetual stalemate against an Ob Nix using Gonti's Aether Heart to get endless swaps and fill his hand with fully-charged SOI removal spells faster than I could get the creatures out.

    As soon as I cast a creature it would immediately get disabled by deadlock trap and then deleted by a SOI or EM spell (that's if Insidious Will wasn't on the board).
    If I couldn't cast a creature fast enough my entire hand would get discarded by Lost Legacy and all the mana I collected was lost.
    Every support was Fragmented or conveniently popped in two turns.

    Tldr:
    Feels like a combination of cheap SOI removal spells and efficient Kaladesh supports/energise shenanigans makes it really difficult to play.
    Quick question. How'd Ob Nixilis get Insidious Will into his deck? ;)

    He might have been using Gonti, Lord of Luxury. /shrug

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