Am I the only one having problems with the muscles?

Psile
Psile Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
in MPQ Suggestions and Feedback
I play mostly PVE and it feels to me like the muscles are over powered for being unnamed characters. For very cheap they can make strike tiles that add damage to all attacks equal to 1/10 of their own health and they have tank hp. An equal level tank can go down in 10 turns or less with just regular matches, and lower hp characters last anywhere from 2-7 turns. Add any attack tiles and that time gets cut in half. They almost always have 2 or 3 threaten countdown tiles out at a time and if it gets put in a tough spot it can be the end of the game. Maybe I'm just bad, but this seems like a bit much.

Comments

  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    They are the worst goon to fight against, especially at high level. While it's true there are several options to counter them, none of them, in my opinion, is 100% hard counter (Antman's blue may be the closest one.) Usually, if they got their strike tiles out, more often that not I just retreat right away and try again. (Oh, they just got a cascade that almost took down a boosted 4* with 30k lifepoint (25k damage dealt) in one go when I closed my sub earlier today)
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    They can be very tough.  Yesterday in the Juggs/Muscle/Muscle node I got hit with a 50k cascade that nearly took out 2 full health boosted 4's.

    There are multiple good strategies to deal with them.  I particularly like using JG to remove special tiles, since it removes both the countdowns and attack tiles.  Even with a good strategy though, sometimes they'll still get you.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    aa25 said:
    They are the worst goon to fight against, especially at high level. While it's true there are several options to counter them, none of them, in my opinion, is 100% hard counter (Antman's blue may be the closest one.).
    I'd say Ultron sentries are the worst, especially at anything over 300. Board shake, crit tiles, oh, and they move the board. And passives mean strange is useless.

    For muscle, unboosted strange works well with Jean and SWitch until they reach level 200 or so. Then you need to grind through too many health points and I just go to Jean with IM40/Peggy unless there is a nice boosted team I can work with. 

    Really, Jean can neutralize muscle with her purple. 

    I guess for the newer players with access only to the newest 12, Riri might work? Don't have her well covered to know for sure.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Medusa and Strange can be a good combo, especially 5* Strange, I would imagine. Eye of Agamotto at three covers removes a Strike tile each turn. 

    But most players probably don't have that situation. Strang3 will hit them with Flames each time they place a CD, and if you can get blue AP, you can hit them with a stun that will do damage each turn. 

    Medusa's passive damage keeps chipping away at them each turn, and can add up if you're able to match the CD and keep placing Attack tiles. If they do manage to get Strikes out, you can use purple with Strang3 to remove them outright. It's a bit more of a risk, but you can also try using Medusa to steal and buff them. 
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    @orbitalint- Riri is probably too slow, she needs to get 11 red AP first and then wait two turns for the countdown to resolve. Meanwhile, the Muscles will spred her below average health.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    Quebbster said:
    @orbitalint- Riri is probably too slow, she needs to get 11 red AP first and then wait two turns for the countdown to resolve. Meanwhile, the Muscles will spred her below average health.
    Yikes, you are right. Even fully covered, she's a tile juggler at best with her blue and a slow tile remover on red. Not recommended.

    Totally forgot Medusa though, she can mitigate/steal some of the muscle tiles better than Riri. I guess that's the best latest 12 for it?
  • TPF Alexis
    TPF Alexis Posts: 3,826 Chairperson of the Boards
    Strange does help immensely, at least for a certain transitional stage. I didn't have him the last time Meet Rocket & Groot rolled around, and the difference in that first Sub with him on board was amazing, even if they did still start to be an issue once they got enough HP.

    Also, I can't remember for sure, but I think they got nerfed recently. Didn't their Threaten Countdown used to only be 2 Turns?
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster said:
    @orbitalint- Riri is probably too slow, she needs to get 11 red AP first and then wait two turns for the countdown to resolve. Meanwhile, the Muscles will spred her below average health.
    Her blue is also useful against them, it will drag the tiles to the centre of the board where they are at least more readily matchable.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    Crowl said:
    Quebbster said:
    @orbitalint- Riri is probably too slow, she needs to get 11 red AP first and then wait two turns for the countdown to resolve. Meanwhile, the Muscles will spred her below average health.
    Her blue is also useful against them, it will drag the tiles to the centre of the board where they are at least more readily matchable.
    I don't have any Iso in Riri (despite 13 covers and one dying) but I wonder how she'd be with CHulk.  His Black fuels Green/Blue.  Use Blue to drag tiles to the middle and Green to punch a hole in the middle of the screen. Not the most dominant pair ever but I bet it'd be fun.
  • Cleonarvi
    Cleonarvi Posts: 4 Just Dropped In
    Grey Suit Widow, Classic Storm, and Hood are my cheap go-to vs them. 

    Widow - Red can clear selected batches, Green clears and does nice AoE, Purple makes more Green. 

    Storm - Green can destroy up to 30 and gain 30 AP, Blue is nice AoE and a great stun, Yellow is meh. 

    Hood - Blue steals a lot of their blue and and yellow over time, Yellow deals a ton of damage and destroys two 3x3 blocks, Black is useless but can be used for easy damage if you get enough. 
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Muscles are horrific. The worst is 2 Muscles + a Non-Goon, so they are moving tiles and gaining yellow and blue AP like crazy, quickly building massive strikes and doing AOE all within a few turns.... so there's not enough time to build up a defense against them.

    My 3* strange doesn't do a dent on them when they have 40,000 or more hit points.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Riri blue isn't even that great in this situation since they make strike tiles of two different colors.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Lol, just use Loki, Ant Man or someone else who simply steal/convert special tiles - trust me, with their strike tiles on your side (or converted to protect tiles), Muscles will be a childplay...
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    veny said:
    Lol, just use Loki, Ant Man or someone else who simply steal/convert special tiles - trust me, with their strike tiles on your side (or converted to protect tiles), Muscles will be a childplay...
    I'm not I'm this situation but what about newer players that don't have access to full builds of these characters? Both your suggestions are vaulted...
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Hm, yeah... x-ing vaulting breaks everything, sorry i forgot (tho Antman can be somehow obtained from promoting some 3*). 
    Well, still you can get these powers from teamups (i hope some of your allies have heroes i named), OR you can use some 2*s or 3*s who steal - Loki is great (i use him with my 5*s lol), Moonstone is somehow inefficient but works too. Then Daredevil, Octopus i think...
    I think there are some strategies how to fight against special tiles.

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