Clearance levels vs vaulting/ bonus heroes

Milk Jugz

I'm creating this discussion as an off shoot to the answers to 8 questions about vaulting thread.

I think the devs have dropped the ball with clearance levels, and then threw it into the dugout with vaulting/ bonus heroes.

Token dilution was not an issue for me making the 2*-3* transition not because there were less characters (there were 40 3* when I was in transition), but because 3* covers come from many sources.

Clearance levels offer an option to fix dilution by opening up 9 and 10 and rewarding 4* and 5* covers the way levels 7 and 8 award 3* and 4* covers.

Level 9 could be T1= 1 5* cover, T5= 3 4* covers, T10= 3 4* covers (with less iso than T5), T25= 2 4* covers, T100= 1 4* cover, T200= 1 4* cover (with less iso than T100)

Level 10 could be T1= 2 5* covers, T5= 1 5* cover, T10= 3 4* covers, T25= 3 4* covers (less iso), T100= 2 4* covers, T200= 1 4* cover.

I really think dilution could have been solved by finishing one idea (clearance levels) before implementing a new idea (vaulting/ bonus heroes)

I have 18 4* champs, my shield rank is 92. But I'm stuck competing in CL8 for 3* covers (which is for rank 52 rosters). That is a HUGE difference between what that CL roster rank is aimed at and where my roster rank actually is.

Following their model, CL9 should be aimed at rank 72 rosters and CL10 should be aimed at rank 92 rosters. I would be very happy competing in CL10 if the option was offered to me!!

Also, when are we going to get a DDQ node similar to the BE that offers a 4* character everyday? Obviously it should be harder than the current BE (which my roster makes mince meat of everyday). There are enough 4* characters now to make this feasible, they just aren't as special anymore now that they are more numerous than 3* characters!!

MissChinch

Agreed, opportunities to pull 4*s can increase to negate most of the impacts of dilution, and carry the benefit of giving players more sheer numbers of 4* covers.  They were on a decent track of increasing opportunities to pull more 4*s, and should continue it when implementing the next SCL.

Milk Jugz

MissChinch said:

Agreed, opportunities to pull 4*s can increase to negate most of the impacts of dilution, and carry the benefit of giving players more sheer numbers of 4* covers.  They were on a decent track of increasing opportunities to pull more 4*s, and should continue it when implementing the next SCL.

You mean IF they implement the next CL......

MissChinch

Milk Jugz said:

MissChinch said:

Agreed, opportunities to pull 4*s can increase to negate most of the impacts of dilution, and carry the benefit of giving players more sheer numbers of 4* covers.  They were on a decent track of increasing opportunities to pull more 4*s, and should continue it when implementing the next SCL.

You mean IF they implement the next CL......

I'm trying not to be a...  smallkitten <--- self censored, you're welcome.

broll

Milk Jugz said:

MissChinch said:

Agreed, opportunities to pull 4*s can increase to negate most of the impacts of dilution, and carry the benefit of giving players more sheer numbers of 4* covers.  They were on a decent track of increasing opportunities to pull more 4*s, and should continue it when implementing the next SCL.

You mean IF they implement the next CL......

But it says coming soon... and has since September...

Milk Jugz

broll said:

Milk Jugz said:

MissChinch said:

Agreed, opportunities to pull 4*s can increase to negate most of the impacts of dilution, and carry the benefit of giving players more sheer numbers of 4* covers.  They were on a decent track of increasing opportunities to pull more 4*s, and should continue it when implementing the next SCL.

You mean IF they implement the next CL......

But it says coming soon... and has since September...

HAHA

Fightmastermpq

We need more clearance levels, but rushing in to them could be bad too if the rewards are good enough to give people an incentive to play in the highest clearance level available.

Also understand that any increase in rewards has the potential to upset the game economy and quite frankly none of us on the forums here have enough info on this to really argue for or against it.

Honestly, I don't think even a substantial increase in rewards would really have done enough to combat dilution even now - let alone a year from now when dilution is even worse.

Lastly, shield rank does not do a great job separating players by roster strength.  You said you were level 92 with 18 4* champs.  I'm a little ahead of you at 112, but with 38 4* champs and 8 5* champs.  So we aren't too far off in shield rank, but our rosters are very different, and we probably shouldn't be competing for the same rewards.

Milk Jugz

Fightmastermpq said:

We need more clearance levels, but rushing in to them could be bad too if the rewards are good enough to give people an incentive to play in the highest clearance level available.

Also understand that any increase in rewards has the potential to upset the game economy and quite frankly none of us on the forums here have enough info on this to really argue for or against it.

Honestly, I don't think even a substantial increase in rewards would really have done enough to combat dilution even now - let alone a year from now when dilution is even worse.

Lastly, shield rank does not do a great job separating players by roster strength.  You said you were level 92 with 18 4* champs.  I'm a little ahead of you at 112, but with 38 4* champs and 8 5* champs.  So we aren't too far off in shield rank, but our rosters are very different, and we probably shouldn't be competing for the same rewards.

But we are now and for 3* covers and the rosters that actually need the 3*s are getting shut out because of our overpowered rosters for that CL

And I would say that 20 levels off is more than your making it. I'm leveling about a rank every 10-14 days. So in that 200-280 days my roster will probably more resemble yours.


Oh and I wouldn't say coming soon since September is rushing in......

GrumpySmurf1002

Milk Jugz said:

And I would say that 20 levels off is more than your making it. I'm leveling about a rank every 10-14 days. So in that 200-280 days my roster will probably more resemble yours.

Oh and I wouldn't say coming soon since September is rushing in......

Then use mine.  I'm Rank 98, I have 34 champed 4s and 3 champed 5s (plus two more close).   6 ranks isn't much.

Milk Jugz

GrumpySmurf1002 said:

Milk Jugz said:

And I would say that 20 levels off is more than your making it. I'm leveling about a rank every 10-14 days. So in that 200-280 days my roster will probably more resemble yours.

Oh and I wouldn't say coming soon since September is rushing in......

Then use mine.  I'm Rank 98, I have 34 champed 4s and 3 champed 5s (plus two more close).   6 ranks isn't much.

No its not, which makes me wonder why there is such a discrepancy. I really don't  grind PVE nodes to xp that often and I usually only go for 575 on PVP. So why is your rank so low?

What about your 3*s? I only have 2 unchamped, hawkguy and starlord 

Ducky

Buying token packs can inflate your Shield Rank very easily while not moving your roster very much if RNG isn't kind, which is why it isn't a very good indicator of roster strength.

Edit - For reference, I am level 105 with 7 champed 5*s (3 more within 3 covers) and all 4*s champed except for C&D and Fist (who is 200k iso away from being champed) and obviously Grocket.

Milk Jugz

Ducky said:

Buying token packs can inflate your Shield Rank very easily while not moving your roster very much if RNG isn't kind, which is why it isn't a very good indicator of roster strength.

Edit - For reference, I am level 105 with 7 champed 5*s (3 more within 3 covers) and all 4*s champed except for C&D and Fist (who is 200k iso away from being champed) and obviously Grocket.

Didn't think about that, plus I've been farming 2s for awhile. That will earn xp without bolstering your roster strength 

TxMoose

green checking pve is the biggest rank boost that does very little for your actual roster other than some iso.  farming 2s like someone else said boosts it too.  people chase xp for iso and I agree that doesn't expand the top of the roster meaningfully.  they really messed up CL8 in pvp to where other than t5, there is nearly no incentive to play 8 over 7.  if they're waiting for cl8 brackets to fill to a certain number, 9 will never happen.

Straycat

I'm at 90 with 24 4* champs, and for 3*s only starlord not champed. So you got me beat in rank but I have more champs

To your point, I don't really think placement rewards for 4*s can fix dilution. I think CL 7 and 8 are doing essentially what you are suggesting, since adding 4*s in progression was a big step. Lowering the 4* progression reward to 900 in pvp also helped, both those steps probably did more than adding 4*s for placement would.

Adding CL9 and 10 also doesn't change anything for new and lower rank players, who are now fast tracked to 4* land thanks to vaulting. Dilution would still stop you from getting that last cover to save a dupe if you were at 6/4/3 for example.

DaveR4470

CL isn't about cover distribution; it's a sorting system to get players of equal ability matched against each other, with variable awards as the sweetner in the deal.  

A champion 4*-level player who is fighting other champion 4*-level players will not play if the rewards are the same as those for a newbie 1* playing another newbie 1*.  But the newbie player will not play if he faces champion 4*-level players as his/her competition all the time.  THAT'S what CL is designed to address.

Vault/bonus is specifically about covers and nothing else.

TPF Alexis

DaveR4470 said:

CL isn't about cover distribution; it's a sorting system to get players of equal ability matched against each other, with variable awards as the sweetner in the deal.  

A champion 4*-level player who is fighting other champion 4*-level players will not play if the rewards are the same as those for a newbie 1* playing another newbie 1*.  But the newbie player will not play if he faces champion 4*-level players as his/her competition all the time.  THAT'S what CL is designed to address.

Vault/bonus is specifically about covers and nothing else.

But CL does a terrible job of addressing that. Or at the very least, it caps out far, far too early. As I mentioned on another thread, I'm on the verge of unlocking SCL 8 while still building my 3* champs, and with no fully Covered 4*. Sorting by CL puts me in the same level as people with all the 5* champed, which is just a ludicrous spread.

Tiderian

More importantly from my view, the only difference in PVP progression rewards is 500 ISO for the standard events and 50 ISO for the SHIELD room.  When I know I don't play enough to place in the top 10, there is no incentive for me to play with the "big boys".

For the record, I am SCL 90 with 23 4* champs and zero playable 5*.