Please refrain from flooding the forums with knee-jerk posts

Matthew

I see a lot of complaining going on here, with little to no grasp of a couplevery important points.

1. Confirmation and Negativity biases exist and are running rampant here. This has been discussed ad nauseam here, but considering the relatively low post numbers by most of the people talking about how "The AI is prescient!", or "The AI gets way more cascades than I do!", etc, I feel it deserves to be revisited. If you believe that the computer is set up to do better than you, plain and simple, you are wrong. That is not the case. The developers have confirmed this, as have certain other individuals who may or may not have peeked under the hood of the app. What is happening is simply that you notice this more than you do when you get your own cascades. If you don't believe me, step back and take an objective look at the data. Keep track of literally every cascade that happens, whether it happened in your or the AI's favor, and how many swaps were gained from that cascade (this is doable via the Battle Log, in case they happen too quickly). Analyzing enough of that data over time will show you that there is a statistically "even" distribution between the two groups of data. TL;DR: you see what you desire and/or expect to see, and you remember bad experiences far more intensely than you do good experiences.
2. Matchmaking is actually better now. There will be growing pains, as there are with every major change that comes to a game like this. However, this requires another dose of objectivity to truly be understood and appreciated. Put aside your tinfoil hats,  inflated egos, and unreasonable expectations, and look at the big picture. Prior to this change, it was the rule, rather than the exception, to face as few as 3 specific individuals as opponents during the course of an event. Superficially, this may not sound so bad, but it was terrible, particularly in Platinum. A list of approximately 10 to 15 individuals, each of whom has an extremely enviable library of cards, were the most commonly encountered players. Furthermore, because of the depth of their libraries, those players fielded the nastiest decks, bar none. Pretty much any uber combo you could think of was at their disposal, and they took full advantage of it. That in itself was bad enough, but what made this especially unfair was that literally every deck from those players was up for rotation as an opponent in an event. Imagine playing a Kiora/Ulvenwald Hydra/Seasons Past/Rishkar's Expertise deck with any of your Fate is Rarely Fair decks. That was commonplace. Now, even though I may occasionally run into "troll decks", I have noticed a dramatic decrease in how often this occurs. Almost every player I match up against now is clearly fielding a deck designed to maximize points for the event I'm in. Those of you who state otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that you're falling victim to one of the biases I've mentioned in the previous paragraph.
   

Matthew

I forgot to add one more point.

I think the "mismatching" of PWs with those that are much higher in level is also a good (if perhaps unintended) outcome of the matchmaking algorithm changes. Barring the aspect of this that potentially allows for exploitation (which I still haven't quite figured out), I think it will discourage people from intentionally handicapping their PWs as a way to meet certain objectives, avoid certain players, or have an overall easier time of things. I'm guilty of this myself, but I will probably not attempt it again with the only PW I currently have at that low of a level for that express purpose.

Froggy

I guess no one wants to comment on this as they may be viewed as one who is biased, or have bitter feelings on the subject. I do, so if someone wants to use this to state I am biased - too late. I said it.

I FULLY agree on points 2 and 3 (second post). I noticed the difference immediately on opponent selection and a constantly changing list of people I now go up against. This is a vast improvement. I am also guilty of point 3 and it makes sense that this change was made.

I choose to differ on point 1, as I have been counting for the past 20 games, as well as looked at the logs, and 14 of them resulted in endless opponent cascades that obliterated me or wiped my board clean within one or two turns. Not to mention that in some (some!) of those matches, my card draws sucked. I am perfectly willing to accept that my deck building needs improvement and that I'm sure even with existing cards I have, I could work out better playing styles. But I guess if what you say about the approximate 50/50 fairness in cascades is in fact true, then I can look forward to some serious winning streak with endless cascades in the very near future.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with your points. And most of all, I'd really like to agree with your first point, as right now STATISTICALLY that just isn't happening in my games. Or I am simply gifted with bad "luck" on computer programming and have become the victim of cyber bullying. (Joke!).

So I sure hope your theory is correct. As I can expect to be unbeatable soon...

toastie

Matthew said:

1. Matchmaking is actually better now.
   

No, it is only better for top players. It is horrendously bad if you don't have PWs leveled to 60.

About 70% of my matches in BP were off by more than 5 levels (most of those I was matched up, a couple I was matched down). It is likely my final ranking would have been different if I was matched up against people closer in level to me.

Arena was even worse, because I had just gotten L2, and hadn't had runes to level her yet. Probably 7 or 8 of my matches were off by 30+ levels. When I was matched up it was hard to win, when I was matched down it was hard to complete objectives before my opponent died, especially with the enrage.

Matthew said:

I think the "mismatching" of PWs with those that are much higher in level is also a good (if perhaps unintended) outcome of the matchmaking algorithm changes.

This is only good if the people being matched up can actually level their PWs up and thus avoid the problem. I have 1000 runes now, there is literally nothing I can do to level my PWs up to match the opponents I'm getting now, and in the case of the nodes locked to specific PWs (T2 in BP and L2 and Dovin in arena), I can't even use another PW, I just have to suffer through nearly unwinnable matches.

And this isn't even about having a fair shot at prizes, I would be somewhat ok with the top prizes being in a 60s only bracket (though that would still kinda suck), it's about these matches being miserable to play.

Ohboy

When are the devs going to out runes out for sale already? 

It's the next logical step. 100k runes for 300 crystals or something. 

If the rune grind is taken away, they need to put in another source of runes. 

Or just go back to 300 runes per win. It wasn't hurting anybody. 

babar3355

In some internal testing, it seems that new players might not get constantly bumped up to fight level 60 opponents.  Although it seemed that way in BP, a coalition mate of mine tested in FiRF on his alt and it seems like its based on last game matched, regardless of which event or walker you were using.  Anyway, would be nice to get a word from the devs on how matchmaking is structured. 

Oddly, we are still wanting some communication..

hawkyh1

my thinking would be to have runes and crystals
traded between players. that way players with
lots of runes can have access to a limited pool
of crystals from mostly newer players wanting to
trade crystals for runes.(mostly during events)

HH

toastie

babar3355 said:

In some internal testing, it seems that new players might not get constantly bumped up to fight level 60 opponents.  Although it seemed that way in BP, a coalition mate of mine tested in FiRF on his alt and it seems like its based on last game matched, regardless of which event or walker you were using.  Anyway, would be nice to get a word from the devs on how matchmaking is structured. 

Oddly, we are still wanting some communication..

I think there are actually multiple problems, having mismatched levels does make it way worse though. I have definitely gotten 60s against multiple 50s in a row though.

ZW2007-

Matthew said:

I forgot to add one more point.

I think the "mismatching" of PWs with those that are much higher in level is also a good (if perhaps unintended) outcome of the matchmaking algorithm changes. Barring the aspect of this that potentially allows for exploitation (which I still haven't quite figured out), I think it will discourage people from intentionally handicapping their PWs as a way to meet certain objectives, avoid certain players, or have an overall easier time of things. I'm guilty of this myself, but I will probably not attempt it again with the only PW I currently have at that low of a level for that express purpose.

Agree to disagree on this one. I play almost all lvl 52 PW with some that I really enjoy at lvl 60 like Ob, Sorin and Saheeli to name a few. Now, I didn't do this for some kind of advantage, at first. I did it because the cost to level a dual color to 50 is about 80k runes, or 50% of the cost to level to 60. So I saved runes for future pws. In BP, I used a lvl 60 Saheeli, 52 Tezz 2, and 50 Ajani 1. I faced all level 60 opponents and that was fine. I never really felt like I was at a disadvantage and I certainly no longer had any kind of advantage. On my alt in BP, I used a lvl 46 N2, a level 21 Saheeli, and a level 13 Tezz 2. I ended up against mostly lvl 50 pws on all three nodes throughout the entire event. After losing with Saheeli and Tezz 2 once each, I spent every last rune I had to get them both to level 36. Having low level pws like that in Silver tier is not and should not be an uncommon thing. It should also not be a penalty for players in that tier. It may have fixed things in platinum but it probably made it much worse everywhere else.

Sarahschmara

I encountered the same problem in platinum. I wasn't purposefully keeping tezz2 at low levels, I just didn't have the runes.

On a positive note; it did encourage me to cash in my dupes so that problem was obliquely solved... but I'm well aware that a newer player probably wouldn't have had that option available.

madwren

Right, the problem with new matchmaking isn't that it fixes the previous low level "exploit" in platinum events, it's that it punishes people who legitimately have low-leveled planeswalkers and lack the runes to level them further.

DuskPaladin

I agree with @Matthew , and I disagree about it punishing the newer players with low-level planeswalkers as an argument against the new and better matchmaking.

I don't think that we should view the issue from the eyes of a top player using an alt with low-level planeswalkers.

As a top player, you already have a lot of experience with the game, know which cards are good, which ones aren't, which planeswalkers to use to have the best chance to achieve your objectives, etc.

For the newer player, I believe, that he'll only be trying to enjoy the game, discovering new cards and planeswalkers. He'll be trying his best, and using his highest level planeswalkers.

Special Events like Breaking Point are like the Olympic Games, or some other extremely big and prestigious tournaments. 

It is not the place for those newer players yet. But D3H, instead of just making it available to Gold and Platinum players, they decide to allow everyone to participate. It is a bonus, to give them more options, even though they might not be ready for it, yet.

As such, maybe those newer players feel like they should have a shot at it and if they can't that it would be unfair, but it isn't. Would you find it unfair that you can't outrun Usain Bolt, after you've started jogging last week?

You usually only need 3 planeswalkers to compete in these events. Use your 3 highest level ones. One of them may be an exclusive planeswalker, if that's the case, try to get him, if he's too expensive, don't. (others in your tier will most likely not have him either, so it will even things out) 

Do your best with you have. Bide your time, play story mode, training grounds to gather your runes. When you'll be strong enough, go join these events. (or at least, then, join these events with the hope of winning them) They are not mandatory.

Before, those newer players could be facing wolves in sheep's clothing, lurking at the low-level, preying on the weak. So they aren't really in more danger now than before. The difference, is that now those wolves might be facing higher level opponents, and they'll be forced to level up and quit their bottom feeding career or risk losing. The legitimately low-levels players will hopefully be left alone.

One last thing, if you worry about the well-being of newer players facing those strong low mastery-tier decks, maybe you should stop playing with your alts to give more chances to those newer players to face real newer players. 

Ohboy

Special events should have all planeswalkers raised temporarily as lvl 60

shteev

DuskPaladin said:

I agree with @Matthew , and I disagree about it punishing the newer players with low-level planeswalkers as an argument against the new and better matchmaking.

I don't think that we should view the issue from the eyes of a top player using an alt with low-level planeswalkers.

Well, hang on now. It can't just be experienced players with low level alts who notice that there are significant advantages to levelling one of your planeswalkers way above the others rather than spreading all of your runes evenly; being able to complete difficult PvE events is probably the most important one.

Plus, let's not forget, that speaking AS a top level plyer, my concern with the new matchmaking system is not that it randomly matches players against players of wildly varying levels... it's that the current system can deliberately be exploited by top level players with low level planeswalkers to get easier matched in platinum level events. Sadly, right now, my only low level PW is Tezz1 at level 30 (oh, for the chance to level down C2 and get my runes back!!!), but rest assured, when AJ2 hits the vaults next week, I will be having another bash at this exploit in any event that will allow it.

This currently legal exploit needs to be shut down now.

DuskPaladin

Oh I completely agree about that part, @shteev and am absolutely against the exploit, too. It should be fixed. My post was only about low-level players facing high level opponents being an argument versus the new matchmaking. (which is generally for the best, except for that exploit, which can be fixed) 

madwren

DuskPaladin said:

As such, maybe those newer players feel like they should have a shot at it and if they can't that it would be unfair, but it isn't. Would you find it unfair that you can't outrun Usain Bolt, after you've started jogging last week?

No, but it would be unfair if I entered into an amateur softball league, and Derek Jeter showed up on the opposing team.

madwren

Ohboy said:

Special events should have all planeswalkers raised temporarily as lvl 60

I rather like this idea, though they'd never go for it. It would remove a need/use for runes.

Matthew

So I noticed a good point made by a few respondents, and which I might have overlooked when writing this.

I'm in platinum and have been playing for over a year, and in that time I have managed to level up the majority of my PWs all the way. I wrote this assuming that other people were in a similar situation, but I forgot about the newer folks.

I can absolutely see the downside to those people. No matter what bracket you're in, it's entirely possible to have multiple PWs reach level 60, while other languish at lower levels. Further complicating things is the fact that runes are now tough to come by. You guys make a fair point in regards to that situation.

However, I still think that the matchmaking changes are a good thing. It will force people to boost their PWs, which will also probably force people to get to higher brackets. Overalll, I think that's good for the game and the community.

toastie

Matthew said:

So I noticed a good point made by a few respondents, and which I might have overlooked when writing this.

I'm in platinum and have been playing for over a year, and in that time I have managed to level up the majority of my PWs all the way. I wrote this assuming that other people were in a similar situation, but I forgot about the newer folks.

I can absolutely see the downside to those people. No matter what bracket you're in, it's entirely possible to have multiple PWs reach level 60, while other languish at lower levels. Further complicating things is the fact that runes are now tough to come by. You guys make a fair point in regards to that situation.

However, I still think that the matchmaking changes are a good thing. It will force people to boost their PWs, which will also probably force people to get to higher brackets. Overalll, I think that's good for the game and the community.

Straight up, if all the events are going to be as painful as the last few have been I'm going to quit.

Having a game that is simply not fun for newer players is not good for the game, that's how games die.

shteev

Matthew said:

So I noticed a good point made by a few respondents, and which I might have overlooked when writing this.

That, of course, is one of the dangers of making knee-jerk posts

gruntface

Sarahschmara said:

I encountered the same problem in platinum. I wasn't purposefully keeping tezz2 at low levels, I just didn't have the runes.

On a positive note; it did encourage me to cash in my dupes so that problem was obliquely solved... but I'm well aware that a newer player probably wouldn't have had that option available.

I've been wary about cashing in dupes tbh. Ever since discussion has picked up about the conversion system, I'm trying to prevent my OCD from pressing that darn button.

Looks like something may be lurking in our futures though, if Brigby's post today is meant to inspire confidence. It's the closest we've seen to something on this topic (long overdue).