Planeswalker Arena: Sorin

madwren

EDHdad said:

I really don't see any reason why 1,000 people couldn't tie for 1st place and all receive the #1 prize.  It isn't like people are competing for a guaranteed [insert name of most wanted mythic that you don't have here].

Exactly--especially since they have flattened the reward structure so dramatically. 

Dsagent

Most of those alternative objectives are not fun at all. Just be like me and ignore them.
The duplicate rare you will get for being first is not worth the stress. 

Ohboy

Dsagent said:

Most of those alternative objectives are not fun at all. Just be like me and ignore them.
The duplicate rare you will get for being first is not worth the stress. 

Isn't that just it? Be as competitive as you want. Me, I try for the objectives even though it's probably unnecessary risk, but clearly not everyone wants to thread the fine line between perfect score and losing, and that's perfectly fine. 

With rewards scaling so gradually, there's no need to play outside your comfort zone if you don't feel like it, and I think that's the whole point. The casuals are getting rewarded just a little less than the more serious players, and everyone can play together. 

As for why it's not ideal to have 1k people trying with perfect score...that's basically scrapping the event competitive system and playing for personal rewards like trials or ogw. I kinda like aiming to beat the field, not joining them with an easy perfect score. 

shteev

Ohboy said:

Isn't that just it? Be as competitive as you want. Me, I try for the objectives even though it's probably unnecessary risk, but clearly not everyone wants to thread the fine line between perfect score and losing, and that's perfectly fine. 

With rewards scaling so gradually, there's no need to play outside your comfort zone if you don't feel like it, and I think that's the whole point. The casuals are getting rewarded just a little less than the more serious players, and everyone can play together.

You and me seem to be playing the Arena levels fairly similarly. Did you lose any games trying to get your objectives when you could have just killed your opponents and taken the 5 or 6 extra points. I did. So I'm not really competing against the field, I think. As far as the leaderboard goes, I'd do a lot better if I didn't play like that. It's a little braggy to say 'I came 4th or 5th and I wasn't really trying', isn't it? Did you see the guy at #1 on the leaderboard who was like, 20 pts ahead of you and me? Was he sacrificing his objectives to go for the win? Was he just a really great player? Was he even a cheat?? Who knows. And how many people were we even playing against? How many brackets were there? How many people even own the PWs needed to compete at all? Or the Dragons? Or the power cards? I was competing against the objectives, not other players.

I posted all my reasons for liking the Arena event here.

madwren

It isn't a true competition when objectives exist that some people can't viably fulfill, purely due to luck (rather than skill).  I'm looking at you, "summon 6 dragons", or you, "win in X turns".

FARTFACTORY

Steeme said:

THEMAGICkMAN said:

Here's some better objective ideas: 
Sorin: win with 70 or more HP for obj.1
Obj.2 take 30 or more damage during the firght. 
This way you have to use his strengths to get both objectives, gaining life. Very doable, and it fits his design. 

Sarkhan: win with 3 dragons in play for obj.1
 Not to sure about the second one, probably kill X or more creatures or win within X turns - the idea is the first one. Plays around his design and strengths, let's you use his ability and other dragon tokens. I'm kinda proud of the design on the objective 1 for sarkhan. Again, tough but doable. 

Much better!

Some modifications to make it more challenging, while exemplifying the planeswalkers' strengths:

Sorin:

1. Win the match!

2. Win with full health.

3. Take 30 or more damage.

Sarkhan:

1. Win the match!

2. Win with three different dragons in play.

3. Use the Dragon's Breath ability.

Now I could get on board for the above objectives.  The focus is basically on playing the match to the best of your abilities, maintaining control and at the same time leveraging the key strengths of the planeswalkers.

There's still a challenge involved.  Since Lifelink on creatures doesn't trigger on the death blow, Sorin will need perfect health before the death blow.  For Sarkhan, you need to play 3 different dragons and use his ultimate, which gives us a reason to stuff every dragon into the deck (even Freejam Rejent and maybe Mirrorwing).

EDHdad said:

I really don't see any reason why 1,000 people couldn't tie for 1st place and all receive the #1 prize.  It isn't like people are competing for a guaranteed [insert name of most wanted mythic that you don't have here].

+5 wabznasms to all of this. If event rewards are going to remain castrated, they need to focus on making objectives more fun rather than tedious and competitive. Also, if having a 1,000 way tie for first is really that financially crippling to D3, how about balance that goofy masterpiece lottery so folks are more inclined to actually buy some unobtanium.

Matthew

FARTFACTORY said:

Steeme said:

THEMAGICkMAN said:

Here's some better objective ideas: 
Sorin: win with 70 or more HP for obj.1
Obj.2 take 30 or more damage during the firght. 
This way you have to use his strengths to get both objectives, gaining life. Very doable, and it fits his design. 

Sarkhan: win with 3 dragons in play for obj.1
 Not to sure about the second one, probably kill X or more creatures or win within X turns - the idea is the first one. Plays around his design and strengths, let's you use his ability and other dragon tokens. I'm kinda proud of the design on the objective 1 for sarkhan. Again, tough but doable. 

Much better!

Some modifications to make it more challenging, while exemplifying the planeswalkers' strengths:

Sorin:

1. Win the match!

2. Win with full health.

3. Take 30 or more damage.

Sarkhan:

1. Win the match!

2. Win with three different dragons in play.

3. Use the Dragon's Breath ability.

Now I could get on board for the above objectives.  The focus is basically on playing the match to the best of your abilities, maintaining control and at the same time leveraging the key strengths of the planeswalkers.

There's still a challenge involved.  Since Lifelink on creatures doesn't trigger on the death blow, Sorin will need perfect health before the death blow.  For Sarkhan, you need to play 3 different dragons and use his ultimate, which gives us a reason to stuff every dragon into the deck (even Freejam Rejent and maybe Mirrorwing).

EDHdad said:

I really don't see any reason why 1,000 people couldn't tie for 1st place and all receive the #1 prize.  It isn't like people are competing for a guaranteed [insert name of most wanted mythic that you don't have here].

+5 wabznasms to all of this. If event rewards are going to remain castrated, they need to focus on making objectives more fun rather than tedious and competitive. Also, if having a 1,000 way tie for first is really that financially crippling to D3, how about balance that goofy masterpiece lottery so folks are more inclined to actually buy some unobtanium.

Bro. Your name. It kills me every single time I match up against you.

Justyce

They could do generic objectives so they don't have to make one for every walker, like the hard 2pt one could be use each walker ability at least once and the 1 pt one that's easier might be cast 6 cards on the set that they are released in. 

shteev

Matthew said:

> FARTFACTORY

Bro. Your name. It kills me every single time I match up against you.

We always wonder in our coalition... are you related to COLONSTORM?

Also.... yknow.. some on topic stuff as well. I liked playing Sorin Arena. Will that do?

Mainloop25

With rewards scaling so gradually, there's no need to play outside your comfort zone if you don't feel like it, and I think that's the whole point. The casuals are getting rewarded just a little less than the more serious players, and everyone can play together.

...Is that the point though? The rewards should reflect the effort of the relative few who do try for the tough objectives, not the majority who don't. Even when the rewards were worth it I hardly ever tried for a perfect score. That doesn't mean that other people weren't happy to go for those prizes. The problem was always the way ties were settled, not that there were so many people scoring high. Make the objectives as hard as you want, as long as the prizes are commensurate with the difficulty.

hawkyh1

let's compare sorin objectives with ratc tez node 3.3.
(remember beating this one is needed for getting
the full progression exclusive rare, when available)
cast 6 vampires vs cast 4 vehicles
win with or fewer than 20 hp vs lose 2 or fewer creatures

tez is not an easy battle but can be done reasonably
consistently with experience and a decent dice roll.
for me its cast 4 vehicles is still a challenge considering
I can only afford to put 1 vehicle card in my deck.

ratc shows that challenging objectives in a ranked event
can be done without having silly objectives.

HH

EDHdad

The point of a game is for people to enjoy playing the game.  Nobody has to play a game.  It is a voluntary activity.  People will only do it as long as they enjoy doing it.

Just because an objective is "challenging" does not mean that it is "fun", "enjoyable", "worthwhile" or "not stupid". It would be "challenging" to win a game of Monopoly AND land on Mediterranean Avenue 50 or more times.  But it would not be "fun".  It would be "challenging" to win a game of Chess while holding a burning hot coal in your bare hand.  But it would not be "fun".  It would be "challenging" to be chained to a bathroom floor, where the only means of escape is to saw your own leg off with a hacksaw, but it would not be "fun".

The reason enraged matches are "fun" is because they are short.  The reason they are short is that you don't have to slow down the game to alternately cast and then kill 6 vehicles / vampires while simultaneously trying not to die to your opponent who is playing a fully tuned deck which is designed to kill you.

If you're going to have a Sorin event, then make it do what Sorin wants to do.  "Gain a bunch of life", "win with a bunch of life remaining", "cast at least 1 creature with Lifelink", stuff like that.

You can have "fun" and "challenging" events where the secondary objectives are doing what you want to be doing in the first place.  ANY planeswalker could have the secondary objective to "use all 3 of this planeswalker's abilities" or "use the ultimate of ability of this planeswalker at least once".  ANY planeswalker could have the secondary objective:  "cascade at least once" or "match gems of each color", or "deal at least 20 damage to your opponent in a single turn".  Something like that.