The Future of MPQ

Dauthi

Mpqr7 noted he was going to make a thread noting the future of 4*s with the new vaulting changes, and so this thread is to speculate on that future.

I agree with the estimate that every 4* will now hit around level 280-290 (for free to play players). This means the majority of us will never see all those juicy high end prizes for their cover progression. More importantly though is how will it effect future gameplay.

Many players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us? Do you think 3*s will be strong as everyone's average 4*, depending on how good that character is to begin with? How will it affect veterans competing against transitioners? Will 4*s ever be able to compete with 5*s now?

It would be great to hear everyone's take on this, because there hasn't been any word on fixing this problem.

shobi6669

I really wonder about this too as I am at a loss as to what vaulting accomplishes in the long run.  After this long with no substantive update from the devs, I am ready to just give up hoping for a fix that will help me, and like you, I am wondering where to go next.  Maybe some of the most vocal supporters of it have a better idea and will comment.

I do wonder if this is all preface to easing/encouraging the transition to 5-star land.  By that I do not mean that they have fixed the rng-only nature of 5-star progression, but maybe this is a step to help people who want to have a briefer period in 4-star land, or to encourage/force those like me hanging out in 4-star land to move up?  If the max-champed 3-stars will soon be competitive with my stunted 4-stars and my 4-stars can never be maxchamped to compete with the 5-stars, it does seem like they are encouraging players to get a stable set (say around 12 or so?) of champed 4 stars and then concentrate on moving to 5-star land.  I really do not know how to accomplish this as there is no non-rng way to get 5 stars (except the recent OML nerf tokens, so maybe that is something they were testing the waters on?).

Maybe the anti-soft-cap people and the proponents of the vaulting system can tell us how few 4 star champions they felt they needed before they started to ignore the 4-star rank and really hoard to pull latest for 5-stars.

Or maybe this is part of a long term plan.  In the video they mentioned the idea of tying scaling in PVE to your clearance level.  When I heard that and have only heard discouraging things about them opening new levels (9 and 10) it really made me think that I would soon be having to compete in CL 7 or 6.  If they are not opening any new level and the top level has to be for those with max-covered/champed fives, then the scaling there will push many people (including myself) down to other levels, even though many people have access to CL 8 at the moment.  I am not sure that is good or bad, but there has to be a place for 5-star players to play and it has to be the top CL level.  Maybe this is just a way to fix letting too many people qualify too early in rank for CL8 = which appears to be the highest level of CL they will open for the moment.

If this is the case I wish they would get on with it already before we all get to used to being able to compete in CL 7 or 8.  Being forced down due to scaling at a later date will seem like a real step back or at least a "feel bad" moment.

I know that I personally can eventually champ all the vaulted heroes, but I have no idea how newer players will ever accomplish this.  I recall someone saying that maybe they could turn events (or at least PVP) into something like Hearthstone or Magic does, and only the most current heroes would be in "standard" and the older heroes would fade away and become obsolete.  I am very against this idea being added at this late date b/c in Magic and Hearthstone once you luck into the card via RNG you have the card and can use it.  Here I needed 13+ covers via RNG and hundreds of thousands of ISO to make the character interesting.  If they get put into some sort of "vintage" bracket where I cannot use them, I would get pretty salty.

Really hope some positive updates come soon.  Cheers!

bbigler

I suppose speculation can be fun, but still pointless because the future cannot be predicted based on past events.  No one could have predicted the changes we've had in the last year by looking at the changes the year before.  But if you want to assume that things will never change from the pattern we have now, then I see the future this way for veteran players:

All 3*s at level 266 and most 4*s between 280 and 290, which means that teams can be more versatile since 3*s are nearly as strong as 4*s (variety is good).  Boosted 3*/4* can compete with mid-level 5*s, but eventually the 3* and 4* tier will become obsolete as everyone eventually starts to champ 5*s.  So, I think any veteran player that doesn't have a 5* plan is doomed.  Thus, here's my suggestion to transition to 5* given the vaulting change:

Slow & Steady & Save - many people can champ 4*s now long before they leave the latest pool, so slow down that process and start saving LT, CP and ISO for a future 300+ pull of Latest Legends in order to fully cover 3 x 5*s. Use your ISO to champ the remaining 4*s and reap all the 4* champ rewards (about 21 per character), then start leveling up those 5*s. 

Great. Then what?  Start hoarding again for a future 300+ pull, while slowly collecting the new 4*s and Classic 5*s. If someone else has a better idea, then let me know. 

Ayasugi-san

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us? Do you think 3*s will be strong as everyone's average 4*, depending on how good that character is to begin with? How will it affect veterans competing against transitioners? Will 4*s ever be able to compete with 5*s now?

Most veteran players. Newer players will only get ~20 3*s close to max level while the vaulted ones lag behind or struggle to even get champed.

Veterans will have even more of an edge against transitioners, because they'll have more characters at higher levels. When newer players realize this they'll probably drop out. So the player base dwindles until it's just veterans and everything stagnates.

FaerieMyst

Will 4*s ever be able to compete with 5*s now?

No.   That's the whole point of the playing tiers.   

Playing DDQ you can get a classic legendary every 10 days and a latest legendary every 5 days.   Plus it doesn't take extraordinary effort to regularly build command points in pve and pvp. 

TetsujinOni

Boosted Max-Champed 4*s are frighteningly capable of competing against low-champed 5*s. 

StreetPreacher

Ayasugi-san said:

Most veteran players. Newer players will only get ~20 3*s close to max level while the vaulted ones lag behind or struggle to even get champed.

Veterans will have even more of an edge against transitioners, because they'll have more characters at higher levels. When newer players realize this they'll probably drop out. So the player base dwindles until it's just veterans and everything stagnates.

3*'s are flowing faster than ever. I've never criticized 3* bonus heroes. I usually get between 1 and 3 a day. On this tier, new players can just favorite everyone they need to.

Crnch73

Well... if there will be a lot of level 266 3's floating around, and my 4's are stuck around 280... doesn't that just make the 4 star tier obsolete as a whole? I mean, sure they are fun, and for me they are currently very useful. But if my 3's are close to the level of my highest 4's, why even spend any resources on 4's right now? Champ rewards can't be worth it if you will still never use them. If I had 3* IF, Cage, and Switch all at 266, would I really use more than 2 or 3 different 4 stars that were at 280? And would I ever spend ISO on my 4's that are still at level 70?

If that is current path we are on, they should really be making 4's easier to obtain, and then 5's could also be easier as well. Since the 3 and 4 tiers will be indistinguishable, it makes no sense to treat one as such a precious commodity. And once the 4 star tier is devalued, the 5 star tier would have to follow. So basically, vaulting is slowly bringing the entire tier system downward...

Pongie

It depends. In pvp, how much does the featured 3* at 266 get boosted to compared against the weekly boosted 4* at 270-290? 

My 275 blade is boosted to 372 in double jeopardy. Would a 266 3* be boosted beyond that? 

Jarvind

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us? Do you think 3*s will be strong as everyone's average 4*, depending on how good that character is to begin with?

Well, I think most 3*s will lag behind a bit, but I will say this - I have IM40 and Black Panther within 5 covers of being maxchamped, and I was shocked in their recent events at how strong they were. Panther's AOE did over 10k and his baseline strikes were stronger than those of my 360 OML - with the TU AP to strengthen them they were 700+ each. I didn't really use IM40's red or blue, but he had over 40k health, more than the champed/boosted Drax and War Machine I was using.

Given that getting champ levels on older 4*s is a Herculean task now, I'd say it definitely smooths out the sub-5* playing field a bit. The top-tier 3*s are beastly once they get to 240+ base level.

veny

With 13 championed 4*s i must say that there is was no problem with promoting them. Since vaulting, promoting these 4*s is nearly impossible, but promoting 12 newest 4*s is way faster. All in all, this is pretty pointless because sooner or later they will face the fate of old 4*s.
Next logical step would be release of Veteran Legendary token (for 20 or even 15 CP) that will contain old 4*s and the oldest 5*s - this would solve problem with that stupid vaulting AND problem with 5*s. What problem with 5*s? Well, with more and more 5*s in classic, its more and more difficult to get specific color of specific 5* (my 0/4/0 Goblin laughs loudly).

RoboDuck

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us?

I don't think this part is even remotely correct.  I'm day 650+ and my highest 3 is only 221.  Almost no one in my alliance is running maxed 3s.  Think this is just an example of this forum not being a good sample of the overall playerbase.

veny

RoboDuck said:

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us?

I don't think this part is even remotely correct.  I'm day 650+ and my highest 3 is only 221.  Almost no one in my alliance is running maxed 3s.  Think this is just an example of this forum not being a good sample of the overall playerbase.

Interesting, my 3* Hulk has also 221. And some of my 3*s have not reached level 200 yet (and yes, i promoted all 3*s on same day).

Pants1000

While it's true that many 4's will get to 280-290 before leaving the latest 12, you will be able to get some much higher with bonus heroes.  Select a small number of your favorites as bonus heroes, and I think it's realistic to get them to 300+ with regular play.

Regarding max champed 3's, I'm still months away from that, but I've played against them in PVP and when boosted they can compete with 4's.  People will start reaching 266 faster now that half are vaulted.  Good boosted 300+ 4's will still beat them easily, but it should bridge the gap between 3's and 4's a little.

HariSeldon

Where do I find the details of this new vaulting scheme? I can't find the changes being discussed. I'd love to find the source to read.

shobi6669

HariSeldon said:

Where do I find the details of this new vaulting scheme? I can't find the changes being discussed. I'd love to find the source to read.

The announcement was labeled as introducing bonus heroes, but also contains the details of who will be in packs:  That 60-page thread is at:

http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/60255/new-feature-bonus-heroes-updated-3-1-17/p1

There is also a stickied thread maintained by forum users which keeps tabs on who is in/out/due to leave the packs at the 3/4/5 star level which I refer to sometimes.  It is at:

http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/62286/current-available-characters-and-future-removal-additions#latest

Cheers!

Dormammu

I disagree that 'most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars'. In fact, I'm sure the opposite is true.

I also disagree that 'every 4* will now hit around level 280-290'. Too many people look at this game and think its current state will remain frozen forever. 4-star availability is evolving due to saturation and I don't think the developers are done with the many recent changes. The recent Heroes for Hire vaults are interesting because they offer specific 4-star covers on a quickly rotating schedule. I say its interesting because I could see this expanding into a token situation - a Heroes for Hire token that can be gained through regular game play that allows a player to choose a vault. Who knows; they're just rolling these out and testing the waters.

One thing I've learned after 3 years is that Marvel Puzzle Quest isn't afraid to adapt, change, and add new content. Sometimes we cheer those changes, sometimes we boo, but looking at this game from the perspective of its launch day I'd say give things time to develop.

Dauthi

FaerieMyst said:

Will 4*s ever be able to compete with 5*s now?

No.   That's the whole point of the playing tiers.   

Playing DDQ you can get a classic legendary every 10 days and a latest legendary every 5 days.   Plus it doesn't take extraordinary effort to regularly build command points in pve and pvp. 

I recall many whales reporting their buffed maxed 4 stars were easily competing with 5*s. This gave some hope to bridge the gap between the two tiers, as it has for 3*s.

StreetPreacher said:

Ayasugi-san said:

Most veteran players. Newer players will only get ~20 3*s close to max level while the vaulted ones lag behind or struggle to even get champed.

Veterans will have even more of an edge against transitioners, because they'll have more characters at higher levels. When newer players realize this they'll probably drop out. So the player base dwindles until it's just veterans and everything stagnates.

3*'s are flowing faster than ever. I've never criticized 3* bonus heroes. I usually get between 1 and 3 a day. On this tier, new players can just favorite everyone they need to.

Agreed, at the rate you can pull normal tokens you see the bonus' in constant effect.

RoboDuck said:

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us? 

I don't think this part is even remotely correct.  I'm day 650+ and my highest 3 is only 221.  Almost no one in my alliance is running maxed 3s.  Think this is just an example of this forum not being a good sample of the overall playerbase.

Close is a relative term, but 3*s go from 166-266, meaning the halfway point would be at 216. If some are at 220, then you are passed the halfway point on your best, meaning the time when they are maxed is getting closer. It may be closer for some of us, but why wouldn't you be concerned?

I'm glad a few from the top can tell us their encounters with these maxed 3*s, because if there is no fix for vaulting, this is what our 4*s are up against.

Dormammu said:

I disagree that 'most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars'. In fact, I'm sure the opposite is true.

I also disagree that 'every 4* will now hit around level 280-290'. Too many people look at this game and think its current state will remain frozen forever. 4-star availability is evolving due to saturation and I don't think the developers are done with the many recent changes. The recent Heroes for Hire vaults are interesting because they offer specific 4-star covers on a quickly rotating schedule. I say its interesting because I could see this expanding into a token situation - a Heroes for Hire token that can be gained through regular game play that allows a player to choose a vault. Who knows; they're just rolling these out and testing the waters.

One thing I've learned after 3 years is that Marvel Puzzle Quest isn't afraid to adapt, change, and add new content. Sometimes we cheer those changes, sometimes we boo, but looking at this game from the perspective of its launch day I'd say give things time to develop.

I Changed most to many, the sample of the population I was referring to is those in the 4* realm who will feel this soon.

It's true they have adapted and changed consistently, but the vaulting is a recent adaption/change and there is no word if they are even happy with it. It could be this is the new norm, and we have to adapt to it as we have with many other changes. I'm pessimistic that there will be adaptions because they purposefully avoided a 2 token solution they used for 5*s for 4*s. It could mean they intend for this result. I'm glad to hear some wishful thinking though.

GurlBYE

RoboDuck said:

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us?

I don't think this part is even remotely correct.  I'm day 650+ and my highest 3 is only 221.  Almost no one in my alliance is running maxed 3s.  Think this is just an example of this forum not being a good sample of the overall playerbase.

I was super thrown off by this too.

If CL 9 is being held back because 8 isn't populated enough that should give a pretty big hint that most players are in the 1-2-3 phase and aren't cycling 2's like crazy either. 

Dauthi

GurlBYE said:

RoboDuck said:

Dauthi said:

Most players are at, or getting close to max level 3 stars, so with 4*s capping at 280-290, how will that affect us? 

I don't think this part is even remotely correct.  I'm day 650+ and my highest 3 is only 221.  Almost no one in my alliance is running maxed 3s.  Think this is just an example of this forum not being a good sample of the overall playerbase.

I was super thrown off by this too.

If CL 9 is being held back because 8 isn't populated enough that should give a pretty big hint that most players are in the 1-2-3 phase and aren't cycling 2's like crazy either. 

Since everyone plays with their peers in PVP, I only see others with similar rosters to mine. In my alliance 200-230 seems to be the average 3* too.

There is many people getting close, but I wasn't implying most out of the entire population of MPQ, which would definitely be crazy.

Championed 3*s leveling faster than 4*s was a small concern, but now with this change it could have a serious impact.

Nepenthe

I got my first max-champed 3* just a few days ago, and one person in my alliance got one to max a few days before me.  The other 18 alliance members don't have 3*s very close to max yet.