Bait and switch

Gideon

Right now I feel like I've been scammed. You run a long bait and switch game. We the community buy something and D3 switches it whenever they feel like. D3 are greedy scammers. I am sick of your shady business practices. You will never see another cent of my money.

Steeme

If you're referring to Baral, it was the community that "demanded" the nerf.  That's not a bait and switch.

If you're referring to something else, please be more specific.

losdamianos

IF by the community you mean people facing decks made by players who paid for this card then I can agree with You.

Kicksnake

I am sad that they decided to nerf a card I payed actual dollars for.  I am not going to demand any refunds.  But I will CERTAINLY never fall for the "buy a card" scam again.  Sigh - this could have been so so good.  I would gladly have given them huge amounts of $$ for $5 cards of most levels. I'm not sure who the business minds are behind this, but the model ... it's just bad.  Bad customer service.  Bad price modeling.  Bad.  Period.  I hope WotC is paying attention to how their MTG brand is being impacted by this.

Matthew

Kicksnake said:

I would gladly have given them huge amounts of $$ for $5 cards of most levels.

It's astounding to me that they have kept their prices so astronomically high. This sentiment right here is far more universally true than the feeling that it's worth it to pay $40 for a completely digital card with no secondary value. D3 would make much more money if they dropped their prices. I just can't fathom why they haven't done so already. Even if the answer is as simple as greed, it still doesn't make sense.

hawkyh1

question for the owners of baral:
how many rewards has the baral looping helped you
win so far?
how many baral loops have you played against?
is baral currently broken?

(I know this might sound aggressive but I'm more
sympathetic towards players who suffer baral loops)

baral can be changed to be still plenty powerful. just
without the loops to help obtain those awkward
objectives.

HH

Matthew

hawkyh1 said:

question for the owners of baral:
how many rewards has the baral looping helped you
win so far?
how many baral loops have you played against?
is baral currently broken?

(I know this might sound aggressive but I'm more
sympathetic towards players who suffer baral loops)

baral can be changed to be still plenty powerful. just
without the loops to help obtain those awkward
objectives.

HH

I own him. For me, it was a purchase based on foresight of just how broken he would be straight out of the gate. I knew that not having him would put me at a distinct disadvantage to those players who did.

Furthermore, I was not ignorant or blind to the reality that he would be nerfed eventually. Other cards have been just as bad and have been altered because of it. Admittedly, this is the first card I've actually paid money for, but that is not the point. The point is that I knew what I was getting into.

I'm glad I did it, because it has allowed me to beat several objectives. I'm also completely fine with the change they've come up with. There should always be an opportunity to react to a card in this game. It's not like the paper game where you can just interrupt someone's turn if you want to. If that were the case, I would be upset with how they're changing him. As it stands though, there are very few reliable methods to target this specific card as the opponent is playing it. That makes for a very unhealthy metagame. Players shouldn't have to build their decks around a counter for a single card. These changes will remove, or at least minimize the need to do so.

kauppila

I also purchased him and it has been fun to design decks around a very different concept.  I don't think there are any objectives that I was able to complete that i would not have been able to complete without having had Baral in my arsenal.  In fact, I probably lost more matches because I faced off against one than I would have gained for owning him.
But, I would have loved to keep him in as is to accomplish different things.
The changes were needed because facing an AI controlled Baral deck is rough and at times left you powerless to oppose.

He is now NOT the $30 card that I purchased though, plain and simple.  He is a good mythic still, but not what I purchased, and for that there should be some offer of compensation/refund.

wereotter

losdamianos said:

IF by the community you mean people facing decks made by players who paid for this card then I can agree with You.

I bought the card, and I still sided with nerfing him and even offered my solutions to his changes. I'm still very happy with how he sits now. I bought him since in paper magic I most enjoy playing red/blue spellslinger decks, and he still is incredibly powerful making that deck type possible here. I'm looking forward to using him for Saheeli post-nerf.

gruntface

Regarding the prices and why they are high, not a day goes by in slack, discord or Facebook where I don't see players posting about their newly bought cards, newly purchased planewalkers or newly acquired bundles that led to some nice cards in packs.

It may be a lot of money for most but it's not to enough players to support the business model. I don't even blame d3h for this whilst there are suckers who continue to drop money on the game. Blame the whales for the gouging, they are enabling the model in place. 

For myself, a dedicated minnow, not another dime. 

shteev

Steeme said:

If you're referring to Baral, it was the community that "demanded" the nerf.

Indeed they did. In fact, the Baral backlash actually began before Baral was released... it would therefore have seemed prudent to fix him before release, instead of releasing a known problem card into the game.

The same thing is going to happen with Tezzeret 2 and Rishkar's Expertise soon.

Steeme

shteev said:

Steeme said:

If you're referring to Baral, it was the community that "demanded" the nerf.

Indeed they did. In fact, the Baral backlash actually began before Baral was released... it would therefore have seemed prudent to fix him before release, instead of releasing a known problem card into the game.

The same thing is going to happen with Tezzeret 2 and Rishkar's Expertise soon.

All of the Dev work was likely completed and tested by the time it was spoiled.  So you can't just "fix" the card before release without delaying the actual release.  Schedules must be maintained and it's not the decision of the developers to do so.

In addition, why not unleash the card and see what the players do with it?  I ran no cycle decks, and thus did not contribute to any griefing.  Some other players, well, have lower ethical standards, so here we are with a modified card.  I should thank them though, because this new Baral is actually much better than the old one.

None of the actions or intents of Hibernum have demonstrated any type of Bait and Switch, which is the subject of this thread.  It is nothing but a rage post and hate mongering.  The evidence is quite clear and if players are having buyer's remorse then they need to man up.  They knew well in advance that the card would be modified and still opted to purchase it.  So why all the rage posts about something we all knew was going to happen?  Seems a bit juvenile and counter-productive.

madwren

Steeme said:

shteev said:

Steeme said:

If you're referring to Baral, it was the community that "demanded" the nerf.

Indeed they did. In fact, the Baral backlash actually began before Baral was released... it would therefore have seemed prudent to fix him before release, instead of releasing a known problem card into the game.

The same thing is going to happen with Tezzeret 2 and Rishkar's Expertise soon.

All of the Dev work was likely completed and tested by the time it was spoiled.  So you can't just "fix" the card before release without delaying the actual release.  Schedules must be maintained and it's not the decision of the developers to do so.

Schedules exist, sure, but they aren't an entirely rigid construct.  They've shown in the past that they're willing to remove cards or not put them into circulation (or award them in events). They had several weeks with which to work when our concerns about the card were first broached. 

losdamianos

wasnt baral the main answer on how to complete 3.1 objectives anyway ?

Ampmp11

losdamianos said:

wasnt baral the main answer on how to complete 3.1 objectives anyway ?

Or the other broken card gah. Which begs the question they made these cards with the intention of breaking the game. I mean 5 rds to do 400 damage. Come on. The lack of foresight and straight incompetence is baffling. I can't believe this company has been around for 10 years it really seems like they are a dying start up. 

Moving on ... everyone should start playing faeria

Ohboy

losdamianos said:

wasnt baral the main answer on how to complete 3.1 objectives anyway ?

It was pummeler. 

madwren

losdamianos said:

wasnt baral the main answer on how to complete 3.1 objectives anyway ?

The primary ways to beat 3.1 are Baral and Pummeler, though from the decks I've seen, Baral usually needs a bit of help to generate enough raw power to overcome the 450hp. Stuff like Part the Waterveil or Noyan Dar, for example.