Any chance we will see Vintage Legendary tokens?

The Herald
The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
Like Vintage Heroics, will there ever be times we can get Vintage LT?

I'm among the players who feel Classic LTs should have had the classic characters left in them, but should the decision stand to focus on current 4* characters will we get opportunities to open old style tokens?

Comments

  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Too true X_X
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have thought they ought to just break up classics into groups. A has all current 4*s and then 5*s Surfer through Spidey. B has same 4*s and another batch of 5*s. Not a lock or anything, but at least odds of being able to focus on a small group (of which you'd probably only want one anyways).
  • StreetPreacher
    StreetPreacher Posts: 54 Match Maker
    Even if it was only available during the off-season, that would be great.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Demi says "no" because dilution.  Yup, that doesnt make any sense, but it is their only statement (via brigby) to date.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    If we see it, it'll be at offseason and we wont be able to use existing LTs or CP, only special tokens given from the offseason PvP events instead of the normal latest legend token...  


    Then when its done it will be citied as the fix forumites have been asking for and yet they're still complaining, clearly proof that its a no win...   


    In truth though its pretty clear they've stopped caring...  notice how they treat issues they actually care for feedback on (the detailed and free text survey about SCL) vs issues they just claim they care about feedback (vaulting, I think we did get a generic one question "would you recommend this game?" a while back then nothing.)

  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    In a somewhat similar fashion, I thought Vintage Heroic tokens were a nice option for helping with vaulting. "A token for just the vaulted 3* and 4* characters, even if it is only during the off season? Well, it's a start."

    Then came the 2*s.

    Seriously, they were so close to basically a purely positive change, then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by adding in the 2*s.

    As it stands, I've pulled exactly one vaulted character from a VHT so far: 3* Hulk (who I still get from farming Moonstone anyhow).

    I love how vaulting was the solution to dilution, and one of the ways they came up with to mitigate vaulting is a token ... suffering from serious amounts of dilution. 

    Seriously, would it be such a crime to offer a token that's only vaulted 3* and 4* characters with the odds split 75/25 just in the off season? Make them non-purchaseable, obtainable purely through off season PvP progression rewards. At max that would be, what, six or nine tokens every three weeks? I can't remember how many we can get per event off the top of my head. 

    Or add all the Classic 5*s and make the split 75/20/5. Just something focused on helping us get vaulted characters.

    But I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as @MissChinch. It seems like they've given up or stopped caring. Apparently the relatively rare and extremely diluted VHT and fairly expensive Heroes for Hire store is their solution for vaulting, for better or worse. OK, I guess we get a vaulted character about once every four events in PvE and the occasional cover in PvP if you can be bothered to hit the 900 mark. Overall, pretty underwhelming. 
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    DarthDeVo said:
    In a somewhat similar fashion, I thought Vintage Heroic tokens were a nice option for helping with vaulting. "A token for just the vaulted 3* and 4* characters, even if it is only during the off season? Well, it's a start."

    Then came the 2*s.

    Seriously, they were so close to basically a purely positive change, then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by adding in the 2*s.

    As it stands, I've pulled exactly one vaulted character from a VHT so far: 3* Hulk (who I still get from farming Moonstone anyhow).

    I love how vaulting was the solution to dilution, and one of the ways they came up with to mitigate vaulting is a token ... suffering from serious amounts of dilution. 

    Seriously, would it be such a crime to offer a token that's only vaulted 3* and 4* characters with the odds split 75/25 just in the off season? Make them non-purchaseable, obtainable purely through off season PvP progression rewards. At max that would be, what, six or nine tokens every three weeks? I can't remember how many we can get per event off the top of my head. 

    Or add all the Classic 5*s and make the split 75/20/5. Just something focused on helping us get vaulted characters.

    But I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as @MissChinch. It seems like they've given up or stopped caring. Apparently the relatively rare and extremely diluted VHT and fairly expensive Heroes for Hire store is their solution for vaulting, for better or worse. OK, I guess we get a vaulted character about once every four events in PvE and the occasional cover in PvP if you can be bothered to hit the 900 mark. Overall, pretty underwhelming. 
    2*'s in the vintage heroic would be fine if it was available all of the time and you could draw with the regular heroics.  That would be a competent way to do it, so of course it will never happen.  I just don't get why we can't have an option.  It's been how many months now?  I am sick of being forced to horde.  The game just isn't fun being stuck with nowhere to go.  Game just feels absolutely broken the way it is and as someone who absolutely loved the game before it it is so frustrating.  I want to play but it doesn't feel worth it to play for what feels like nothing.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:

    And if the classics become too diluted, just divide the pool.  Call them vintage LTs and tie them to yearly releases, so 2016 4*s with 2016 5*s, etc.  Problem solved!  This is not complicated stuff.  It's literally a decision demi has already inplemented in game for the 5* tier. . . 
    I suspect they won't do this to avoid behavior where people only buy tokens from the "alumni" token that has the largest number of "high tier" releases, possibly to the exclusion of even the newest releases, with (one can only assume) disastrous consequences for PVP diversity.

    And they are unlikely to attempt to mitigate this by manually "seeding" each token group with the same average level of "tier quality" because in doing so they would have to acknowledge that play tiers exist (which they very likely won't do) and that (by extension) they design characters that are considerably worse (or better) than others.

    Not to mention that they'd have to continuously monitor the ongoing meta to make sure that there's not a shift to a set of characters who do all appear in the same token group.
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah! If they had special tokens that were only available through play that offered vaulted 3*s and 4*s, I would be a happy person. I don't need the endless chances to win 1* and 2* characters.. I'd love a chance to win more vaulted 3* and 4* characters. I have a SR of over 100, over 1000 days of logins and lots of other signifiers to prove that I'm an advanced player.. I think I'm deserving of some advanced rewards.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Vhailorx said:

    And if the classics become too diluted, just divide the pool.  Call them vintage LTs and tie them to yearly releases, so 2016 4*s with 2016 5*s, etc.  Problem solved!  This is not complicated stuff.  It's literally a decision demi has already inplemented in game for the 5* tier. . . 
    I suspect they won't do this to avoid behavior where people only buy tokens from the "alumni" token that has the largest number of "high tier" releases, possibly to the exclusion of even the newest releases, with (one can only assume) disastrous consequences for PVP diversity.

    And they are unlikely to attempt to mitigate this by manually "seeding" each token group with the same average level of "tier quality" because in doing so they would have to acknowledge that play tiers exist (which they very likely won't do) and that (by extension) they design characters that are considerably worse (or better) than others.

    Not to mention that they'd have to continuously monitor the ongoing meta to make sure that there's not a shift to a set of characters who do all appear in the same token group.
    I dont think this is too big a problem.  If the vintage pools are sufficiently large, then it will be fairly hard to chase any particular character efficiently.  And each cp spent on a particular vintage is a cp NOT spent on some other vintage.  So even if one token has a good run of characters in it (say the end of 2016 and beginning of 2017 that had blade, medusa, and carol all bunched together), having a single small group of characters isnt really enough to dominate anymore.  Any character with 14k health is pretty vulnerable these days, and no one is boosted every week.  

    Yes, it might be a problem if the best or 10 or 18 4*s all wound up in the same token.  But going by release order that won't happen.  And we already have a situatuon where everyone is playing the same current 12 meta right now because they are the only 4*s we can build.  If some players peeled off of latest tokens to go chase iceman or peggy it would arguably add diversity to the pvp game!
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    n25philly said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    In a somewhat similar fashion, I thought Vintage Heroic tokens were a nice option for helping with vaulting. "A token for just the vaulted 3* and 4* characters, even if it is only during the off season? Well, it's a start."

    Then came the 2*s.

    Seriously, they were so close to basically a purely positive change, then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by adding in the 2*s.

    As it stands, I've pulled exactly one vaulted character from a VHT so far: 3* Hulk (who I still get from farming Moonstone anyhow).

    I love how vaulting was the solution to dilution, and one of the ways they came up with to mitigate vaulting is a token ... suffering from serious amounts of dilution. 

    Seriously, would it be such a crime to offer a token that's only vaulted 3* and 4* characters with the odds split 75/25 just in the off season? Make them non-purchaseable, obtainable purely through off season PvP progression rewards. At max that would be, what, six or nine tokens every three weeks? I can't remember how many we can get per event off the top of my head. 

    Or add all the Classic 5*s and make the split 75/20/5. Just something focused on helping us get vaulted characters.

    But I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as @MissChinch. It seems like they've given up or stopped caring. Apparently the relatively rare and extremely diluted VHT and fairly expensive Heroes for Hire store is their solution for vaulting, for better or worse. OK, I guess we get a vaulted character about once every four events in PvE and the occasional cover in PvP if you can be bothered to hit the 900 mark. Overall, pretty underwhelming. 
    2*'s in the vintage heroic would be fine if it was available all of the time and you could draw with the regular heroics.  That would be a competent way to do it, so of course it will never happen.  I just don't get why we can't have an option.  It's been how many months now?  I am sick of being forced to horde.  The game just isn't fun being stuck with nowhere to go.  Game just feels absolutely broken the way it is and as someone who absolutely loved the game before it it is so frustrating.  I want to play but it doesn't feel worth it to play for what feels like nothing.
    I'll add one more to you.
     
    2* in vintage would be OK only in the following scenario for me:
    1.  Available all the time.
    2.  Heroic tokens apply to both stores Heroic and Vintage
    3.  There is a separate CP vintage store for 4*s that has no 2* or 3*s

    Those 3 changes would give people pretty close to the same level of access to the vaulted characters, keep the benefits of vaulting in place, and allow players more choice in how their rosters progress.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    I'll add one more to you.
     
    2* in vintage would be OK only in the following scenario for me:
    1.  Available all the time.
    2.  Heroic tokens apply to both stores Heroic and Vintage
    3.  There is a separate CP vintage store for 4*s that has no 2* or 3*s

    Those 3 changes would give people pretty close to the same level of access to the vaulted characters, keep the benefits of vaulting in place, and allow players more choice in how their rosters progress.

    That's so straightforward a solution that has been brought up so many times that I am just assuming is not something D3/Demi is inclined to consider at this point.  The fact that heroic tokens weren't any good at the vintage heroic store said a lot.


    Selfishly it wouldn't be as good as the previous system for me (I used to be able to hoard and spend my CP on a store that had only 3 5*s yet all of the 4*s)

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