Qb modes

Ohboy

So lots of us seem to have forgotten that we used to play for fun, not for rewards.

As such I think many don't play QB at all except as a mad dash at the end for some rewards if they feel inclined to do so.

I know most players are boycotting the trials for one reason or another. But I just want to say I really enjoy playing it. It's my favourite event because legendary mode keeps things always exciting. And it's a shame few people get to experience it on a daily basis.

So here's my suggestion. Why not make all modes available in QB? Players can voluntarily choose to play against QB opponents in enraged, supercharged or legendary modes for fun. This allows everyone to always have some interesting game to play at any time, and open another use of the existing QB format to players who don't want to grind QB.

Just don't give extra points for different modes and it won't shake the format. Just more fun options for people who like to play more games.

Mainloop25

Well that is more or less what we thought trial of the planes was going to be... No one saw that it was going to be behind a crystal paywall.

Ohboy

Mainloop25 wrote:

Well that is more or less what we thought trial of the planes was going to be... No one saw that it was going to be behind a crystal paywall.

How that happened is actually still a mystery to me. Was I late in reading the patch notes? I swear it said from the start that there was an entry fee.

Sarah was the first one to point it out, 30 minutes after trials was announced. An hour later, brigby confirmed that the cost was 60 crystals.

Less than 5 people commented I think between the initial announcement and brigby's confirmation. How is it that everyone thought trials was going to be anything else other than what it was when the patch finally hit?

I get the other complaints... The trials costing crystals taking everyone by surprise is the one leaving me scratching my head.

Justyce

Some thought it was an entry fee for the whole week.

Also 60 crystals is fine but they also basically halved your free crystal rewards which made the cost more jarring and ultimately surprising.

Being told 60 is fine but when you halve rewards it's in effect 120 crystals under the previous rewards system now that was what what got people off guard.

It was like when they said look you can buy 2 premium packs and get 2 rares for the lost of 4 packs that sounded great until you saw the new rewards and it made buying one pack has hard and as long as buying a big box in the previous system.

Justyce

Though saying this I think they should reduce the QB rewards in line with other rewards.

Say top prize gets one rare, 50 crystals 10 jewels and a premium

2-10 get 5 jewels 10 crystals, a super pack

11-50 get 1 jewel 5 crystals and a standard booster

51-150 get 5 crystals and a basic booster

Ohboy

Top 150 should all get jewels I think.

khurram

Ohboy wrote:

I get the other complaints... The trials costing crystals taking everyone by surprise is the one leaving me scratching my head.

Its not just the 60 crystals cost so much as the ROI ratio that threw people off gaurd. People had the pre-patch rewards structure in mind and i am sure many of them thought they would get a good chunk of crystals back during trials event too. Crazy, i know. But with the overhaul to rewards most people see that they dont get enough crystals anymore to invest as much as they are required, to get the rewards that dont seem worthwhile anyway. And not each of us can grind out to go for rank 1 each qb cycle... unlike some people. 400 jewels but you end up with a dupe? all that effort goes to the drain, its all been discussed already. And yes, regardless of your argument about the 60 crystals investment being actually worth it, most people dont agree.

In short, the cut to rewards made those people lash out too who were going to keep quite about the entry fee.

shteev

If we're going to get different modes in QB, then I for one would like at least one mode which favours win % over speed... QB gets awful samey these days.

Sorin81

Ohboy wrote:

So lots of us seem to have forgotten that we used to play for fun, not for rewards.

I don't believe this.
In fact I don't think many of us would still be playing if we didn't still play for fun.
I'm sure that fun is one of the reasons that all of us started playing and continue to play despite the unpopular decisions that D3/H have made.
What needs to be understood is that no matter if you play casually or competitively, if you are a new player or a veteran, if you prefer QB or events, earning rewards is part of the fun.
Reducing rewards reduces fun.

Ohboy wrote:

I know most players are boycotting the trials for one reason or another. But I just want to say I really enjoy playing it. It's my favourite event because legendary mode keeps things always exciting. And it's a shame few people get to experience it on a daily basis.

So here's my suggestion. Why not make all modes available in QB?

I like this idea. I like playing QB but it does get a bit monotonous so adding different modes to increase the challenge and give some variety is something I would welcoare

Justyce wrote:

Some thought it was an entry fee for the whole week.

I was one of these people.
I'm not necessarily boycotting the trials but I won't play them under the current rewards system. I just can't. I can't afford to. I have been playing for over a year but I have less than half of the available planeswalkers so my crystals are valuable to me.

Justyce

Jewels are too valueable, I don't think top 150 should get jewels. It's the first tier in QB that gets crystals and that should be its rewards.

madwren

The perception shared by many was that you could recoup your entry fee by winning out. We also thought that the crystal price would be lower. Something like 10 to enter, potentially win 10 back.

Not 60 to enter, win a booster pack, and pretend that's equivalent value.

ZW2007-

Ohboy wrote:

play for fun, not for rewards.

I wanted this so desperately. Currently QB incentivizes players to not play it until the very end, like you mentioned. Let's be honest, it's not any fun to play against other people's QB decks. I'd love a game mode that is always available any hour of the day that puts me against other player's 'fun to play with' decks and rewards me with nothing. I often make fun decks and play them against BFZ story mode end bosses (Breaker of Armies & Ulamog) even though I've already 100% completed story mode ages ago. It's getting too boring to even keep playing those or the heroic encounters though because the decks are always the same. I want variety and I want to be able with the sub-par rares and mythics that I would never dare play in an event that has rewards.

shteev

Ohboy said:

So lots of us seem to have forgotten that we used to play for fun, not for rewards.

You're right. And this would be a perfect time to play for fun, wouldn't it? Since the rewards are currently so awful, fun really is the only reason to play.

So, I spent most of yesterday not playing FIRF. I'd enter the event and look at the nodes, and think, 'I really can't be arsed to play these optimally'. The <20 life objective in particular is a grind. So then, I'd think to myself, 'Well, since the rewards suck, it really doesn't matter if I complete the objectives, I can just play to completion'. But then, crucially, I'd think to myself 'Well, since the completion rewards suck, it realy doesn't matter if I play at all'. So I didn't play.

So why am I not playing for fun? Or, to phrase the question in a different way: Why is the game not fun any more? All kinds of reasons. The chances of any individual game being fun are pretty small. Matchmaking almost never pits you against a deck which is a worthy oppponent for you. And the huge disparity in card power level compounds that problem terribly. And the AI sucks. And QB incentivises all your opponents (and you!) to play with dull decks.

All these problems have existed for a while, of course. But some of them are getting worse over time (This time last year players were playing a wider variety of decks in QB, and all I need to say about power creep is Baral). And some of them are just making the game stale for me. The feeling of progression is gone... not just because I'm not getting mythics in every event, but because I already HAVE enough broken mythics like Prism Array, Baral, Season's Past, Behold the Beyond, and Startled Awake. Games grow stale. Of course they do. There are all kinds of games that I used to love, and which I grew bored of with time. But a game like this which is constantly releasing new content shouldn't be one of those, should it? Paper MTG has managed to keep me engaged for 25 years.

ridfrenzy

I only ever use QB to practice new decks on.  Not playing it much at the moment because I haven't made any new decks recently.  That is mostly a lack of new cards and that isn't a dig at the drop rates it is more to do with this set being out for a while now and there isn't really any new strategies to try out.

Sarahschmara

I did pick up on the "low entry fee" and I was disappointed by Brigby's response that it would cost 60 crystals but, like many others, I misinterpreted the very vague reply as meaning it would cost 60 crystals for the entire week, not per day. 

60 crystals on Monday for access to 5 days of play? Worth it to me. 

toastie

Well this topic just got funny considering QB is going away.

Volrak

shteev said:

The feeling of progression is gone... not just because I'm not getting mythics in every event, but because I already HAVE enough broken mythics like Prism Array, Baral, Season's Past, Behold the Beyond, and Startled Awake.

To play devil's advocate.. one thing the reduction of mythic availability achieves is to drastically reduce the rate at which players reach your state of having "enough" broken mythics going forward.  We don't know if that was their goal because they didn't deign to tell us, but it is an effect of the change, along with a number of more negative effects which enough people have stated that I don't need to repeat them.

(Of course, it won't help with those mythics such as one you cite which have somehow managed to be released as Rare cards, though.)

As for QB, some kind of change was needed, but whether the replacement they're going with will fill the same kind of niche for those who enjoyed QB remains to be seen.

J23flo

Volrak said:

shteev said:

The feeling of progression is gone... not just because I'm not getting mythics in every event, but because I already HAVE enough broken mythics like Prism Array, Baral, Season's Past, Behold the Beyond, and Startled Awake.

To play devil's advocate.. one thing the reduction of mythic availability achieves is to drastically reduce the rate at which players reach your state of having "enough" broken mythics going forward.  We don't know if that was their goal because they didn't deign to tell us, but it is an effect of the change, along with a number of more negative effects which enough people have stated that I don't need to repeat them.

(Of course, it won't help with those mythics such as one you cite which have somehow managed to be released as Rare cards, though.)

As for QB, some kind of change was needed, but whether the replacement they're going with will fill the same kind of niche for those who enjoyed QB remains to be seen.

Why did QB need a change? I am not sure if I remember anyone calling for a change to it. Maybe evening out the prize structure so that there isn't a glaring jump from top 10 to first place. (A different reward for each of the top 10 slots would have allowed a better gradation)

Volrak

J23flo said:

Why did QB need a change? I am not sure if I remember anyone calling for a change to it.

Well, since you asked: QB has become a stagnant, predictable format where you repeatedly pit your fastest Koth/Nahiri against other people's fastest Koth/Nahiri, where how soon you entered QB after a fresh group starts is critical to your success, and to get the very top rewards can require hours if not days of solid grinding with the fastest possible cards (bad luck if you don't have them) and playing environment (bad luck if your loading times are slow).  It's also a magnet for cheaters, rendering all possible legitimate strategies unreliable for getting the top rewards (but you may only find out your group is compromised after sinking tens of hours into your attempt).

Personally, none of that has been fun for me for some time.  Rather than complain, we can simply choose to not play, or play some minimum amount to try to maximise reward per effort spent.  Very occasionally, established players have commented on a fun race for first, (but this is a tiny, tiny proportion of players), or how fun it was to luck into an empty group just before the QB ending time (the most fun is when you only have to play one game?).  But apart from this, I don't remember anyone at all talk about actually having fun from the QB gameplay itself since at least last year.  Sure, people like the rewards, but if that's the only drawcard, it's a hollow grind of a game.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has a different perspective.

Fiddler

I enjoyed grinding in QB for a time. But when cheats took over many of the events it spoiled it for me. At least this change removes that. I guess that's one way to address hacks. 

UweTellkampf

I liked QB as it was eben though I hardly ever made it to top 10. I also don't see cheaters bring a Tessin to changing the format this drastically. They are still around and their impact on the game is the same in events too.