A possible fix to make PVE enjoyable for 5* players

OneLastGambit

OK so I read on the forum today (not for the first time) that 5* players get really restricted to using just their 5* toys due to scaling.

These wonderful cavaliers charged into the 5* zone lances steady to slay all foes only to find the foes have become insufferably difficult and could only be dealt with using their 5* characters. Surely the point of creating the 5* tier wasn't to invalidate all tiers below it?

I thought about this and a number of solutions have been suggested before to fix this but obviously was not the devs brand of vodka or we would all be praising this courageous move.
The goal of this thought experiment is thus - How to make PVE more enjoyable for 5* players?

So I took something currently under debate (Roster restriction in heroics) and something which we all crave (control over our rosters) and came up with....

De-Selectable Tiers

Here's how it works. At the start of any pve you would be allowed to select which tiers you would be able to use for said event. Anything which is not selected would be locked out for the entire event and therefore not contribute towards scaling.

Simple right?

"But Gambit why de-select an entire tier!" I hear you cry. The answer is simple. If you could deselect just a couple of characters, it would enable you to lower your scaling while still being able to pummel your way to 1st place with ease Using those Champed 5s. Remember the goal of this experiment is not to make PVE easier for 5* players - it's to make it more fun

"OK maybe you're right on that one, but why not just be able to deselect per node gambit!" I hear you shout again. Simples, one could simply deselect their 5* toys for the hardest nodes whilst enabling them for the easiest ones allowing them to easily game that system. It's not about making it easier.

To me, this seems like a good halfway point to enable 5* players to use a larger variety of their roster whilst simultaneously not handing them a distinct advantage over everyone else.

some people might point the finger at the people who charged into 5* territory and say they did it to themselves. I say why point fingers? I want everyone to have fun playing, not just me. And even if you don't ascribe to that kind of selfless mentality then look at it this way... we are all going to get to 5* land eventually - wouldn't you rather it be kinda nice and fun when you do?

SummerGlau

i say you dug your own hole, don't expect others to dig you out

that said i still think heroics should have limited rosters if only to give 5 starplayers something to do with 4s not named Red Hulk or Iceman

Wjohnson992

OneLastGambit wrote:

OK so I read on the forum today (not for the first time) that 5* players get really restricted to using just their 5* toys due to scaling.

These wonderful cavaliers charged into the 5* zone lances steady to slay all foes only to find the foes have become insufferably difficult and could only be dealt with using their 5* characters. Surely the point of creating the 5* tier wasn't to invalidate all tiers below it?

I thought about this and a number of solutions have been suggested before to fix this but obviously was not the devs brand of vodka or we would all be praising this courageous move.
The goal of this thought experiment is thus - How to make PVE more enjoyable for 5* players?

So I took something currently under debate (Roster restriction in heroics) and something which we all crave (control over our rosters) and came up with....

De-Selectable Tiers

Here's how it works. At the start of any pve you would be allowed to select which tiers you would be able to use for said event. Anything which is not selected would be locked out for the entire event and therefore not contribute towards scaling.

Simple right?

"But Gambit why de-select an entire tier!" I hear you cry. The answer is simple. If you could deselect just a couple of characters, it would enable you to lower your scaling while still being able to pummel your way to 1st place with ease Using those Champed 5s. Remember the goal of this experiment is not to make PVE easier for 5* players - it's to make it more fun

"OK maybe you're right on that one, but why not just be able to deselect per node gambit!" I hear you shout again. Simples, one could simply deselect their 5* toys for the hardest nodes whilst enabling them for the easiest ones allowing them to easily game that system. It's not about making it easier.

To me, this seems like a good halfway point to enable 5* players to use a larger variety of their roster whilst simultaneously not handing them a distinct advantage over everyone else.

some people might point the finger at the people who charged into 5* territory and say they did it to themselves. I say why point fingers? I want everyone to have fun playing, not just me. And even if you don't ascribe to that kind of selfless mentality then look at it this way... we are all going to get to 5* land eventually - wouldn't you rather it be kinda nice and fun when you do?

Or you could not go to 5* land and wreck your pve.

Fightmastermpq

Summer Glau wrote:

i say you dug your own hole, don't expect others to dig you out

This is ****. It wasn't until somewhat recently that we were even made aware of how bad 5* scaling in PvE really was. If you recall, with 8hr refreshes scores were more determined by how well you could play on a schedule than speed in many cases (or so we thought). But once they went to 24-hr refreshes (long after several of us already had champed 5*s) it became abundantly clear that 5*s were at a disadvantage in PvE when most leaderboards were topped by 3* and 4* rosters simply due to how long it takes to whittle down those level 400+ Dark Avenger 60k+ health pools.

It wasn't really a conscious decision even for the most avid forumites, let alone the masses that are smart enough to stay away from here. It's also counterintuitive that you would level your roster to see PvP success and all of a sudden find yourself no longer able to place in PvE. There is no in-game warning that pops up when you hit that level max button asking you "are you sure you don't want ever want a top Story placement again?" So no, the vast majority of players plagued by 5* scaling most certainly DID NOT "dig their own hole."

Daredevil217

OneLastGambit wrote:

OK so I read on the forum today (not for the first time) that 5* players get really restricted to using just their 5* toys due to scaling.

These wonderful cavaliers charged into the 5* zone lances steady to slay all foes only to find the foes have become insufferably difficult and could only be dealt with using their 5* characters. Surely the point of creating the 5* tier wasn't to invalidate all tiers below it?

I thought about this and a number of solutions have been suggested before to fix this but obviously was not the devs brand of vodka or we would all be praising this courageous move.
The goal of this thought experiment is thus - How to make PVE more enjoyable for 5* players?

So I took something currently under debate (Roster restriction in heroics) and something which we all crave (control over our rosters) and came up with....

De-Selectable Tiers

Here's how it works. At the start of any pve you would be allowed to select which tiers you would be able to use for said event. Anything which is not selected would be locked out for the entire event and therefore not contribute towards scaling.

Simple right?

"But Gambit why de-select an entire tier!" I hear you cry. The answer is simple. If you could deselect just a couple of characters, it would enable you to lower your scaling while still being able to pummel your way to 1st place with ease Using those Champed 5s. Remember the goal of this experiment is not to make PVE easier for 5* players - it's to make it more fun

"OK maybe you're right on that one, but why not just be able to deselect per node gambit!" I hear you shout again. Simples, one could simply deselect their 5* toys for the hardest nodes whilst enabling them for the easiest ones allowing them to easily game that system. It's not about making it easier.

To me, this seems like a good halfway point to enable 5* players to use a larger variety of their roster whilst simultaneously not handing them a distinct advantage over everyone else.

some people might point the finger at the people who charged into 5* territory and say they did it to themselves. I say why point fingers? I want everyone to have fun playing, not just me. And even if you don't ascribe to that kind of selfless mentality then look at it this way... we are all going to get to 5* land eventually - wouldn't you rather it be kinda nice and fun when you do?

I don't like it. No one will "lock out" two, three or four stars because they will screw themselves right out of essential node points and will not be able to place decently without those points. So really this would only be used to turn off 5* rosters (and subsequent scaling), or an "undo" button that the elite players can toggle on and off to dominate both the PVE and PVP rewards simultaneously (with the latter and just by nature of being in the 5* tier, they are certainly not hurting for rewards)

All the rest (like the option to lock out 2* characters) is just extra dressing to make it look like something it isn't. Hard pass here.

OneLastGambit

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Summer Glau wrote:

i say you dug your own hole, don't expect others to dig you out

This is tinykitty. It wasn't until somewhat recently that we were even made aware of how bad 5* scaling in PvE really was. If you recall, with 8hr refreshes scores were more determined by how well you could play on a schedule than speed in many cases (or so we thought). But once they went to 24-hr refreshes (long after several of us already had champed 5*s) it became abundantly clear that 5*s were at a disadvantage in PvE when most leaderboards were topped by 3* and 4* rosters simply due to how long it takes to whittle down those level 400+ Dark Avenger 60k+ health pools.

It wasn't really a conscious decision even for the most avid forumites, let alone the masses that are smart enough to stay away from here. It's also counterintuitive that you would level your roster to see PvP success and all of a sudden find yourself no longer able to place in PvE. There is no in-game warning that pops up when you hit that level max button asking you "are you sure you don't want ever want a top Story placement again?" So no, the vast majority of players plagued by 5* scaling most certainly DID NOT "dig their own hole."

This is why, right at the very end of my suggestion I did say that even if you are a tad more selfish than myself and don't wish fun for others then perhaps think selfishly and realise that improving 5* now means when you move to that tier it will actually be enjoyable.

I want the game to be better for everyone and although I'm not a 5* player I want them to enjoy the game. Everyone is entitled to think selfishly if they must but in doing so one must realise that whats good for 5* players now, will be good for you when you become one or hey...even better it might persuade you to become one.

as a side effect this proposed new game feature it would also disincentivize softcapping too.

GrumpySmurf1002

There's nothing that could be done to make the current PvE system enjoyable.

Whether you're new or have everyone at 550, there's nothing fun about mindlessly hitting the same nodes over and over again on a schedule.

OneLastGambit

Daredevil217 wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

OK so I read on the forum today (not for the first time) that 5* players get really restricted to using just their 5* toys due to scaling.

These wonderful cavaliers charged into the 5* zone lances steady to slay all foes only to find the foes have become insufferably difficult and could only be dealt with using their 5* characters. Surely the point of creating the 5* tier wasn't to invalidate all tiers below it?

I thought about this and a number of solutions have been suggested before to fix this but obviously was not the devs brand of vodka or we would all be praising this courageous move.
The goal of this thought experiment is thus - How to make PVE more enjoyable for 5* players?

So I took something currently under debate (Roster restriction in heroics) and something which we all crave (control over our rosters) and came up with....

De-Selectable Tiers

Here's how it works. At the start of any pve you would be allowed to select which tiers you would be able to use for said event. Anything which is not selected would be locked out for the entire event and therefore not contribute towards scaling.

Simple right?

"But Gambit why de-select an entire tier!" I hear you cry. The answer is simple. If you could deselect just a couple of characters, it would enable you to lower your scaling while still being able to pummel your way to 1st place with ease Using those Champed 5s. Remember the goal of this experiment is not to make PVE easier for 5* players - it's to make it more fun

"OK maybe you're right on that one, but why not just be able to deselect per node gambit!" I hear you shout again. Simples, one could simply deselect their 5* toys for the hardest nodes whilst enabling them for the easiest ones allowing them to easily game that system. It's not about making it easier.

To me, this seems like a good halfway point to enable 5* players to use a larger variety of their roster whilst simultaneously not handing them a distinct advantage over everyone else.

some people might point the finger at the people who charged into 5* territory and say they did it to themselves. I say why point fingers? I want everyone to have fun playing, not just me. And even if you don't ascribe to that kind of selfless mentality then look at it this way... we are all going to get to 5* land eventually - wouldn't you rather it be kinda nice and fun when you do?

I don't like it. No one will "lock out" two, three or four stars because they will screw themselves right out of essential node points and will not be able to place decently without those points. So really this would only be used to turn off 5* rosters (and subsequent scaling), or an "undo" button that the elite players can toggle on and off to dominate both the PVE and PVP rewards simultaneously (with the latter and just by nature of being in the 5* tier, they are certainly not hurting for rewards)

All the rest (like the option to lock out 2* characters) is just extra dressing to make it look like something it isn't. Hard pass here.

I see your point but in my system what advantage would a 5* player have over a 4* player if their 5* characters are disabled? They would have an advantage over 2 and 3* players but so do 4* players and nobody is complaining about them. One could even argue that 3* players have an adavantage over 2* yet nobody is complaining about them. this system would not enable them to dominate anything over anyone else - it would make them equal to everyone else.

This suggestion does not make PVE easier they will still have tough scaling the same as everyone else. You have to understand that my goal here isn't to make it easier for them - its to make it more fun.

madsalad

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

There's nothing that could be done to make the current PvE system enjoyable.

Whether you're new or have everyone at 550, there's nothing fun about mindlessly hitting the same nodes over and over again on a schedule.

This. A million times this.

I have recently started playing Overwatch more and more and more, and MPQ less and less and less.

Wjohnson992

The game in its current state gives a clear choice. If you want to play PVP you max everyone and PVE scaling be damned, you've decided to be a competitive PVP player, you do that and enjoy it you will get the PVP rewards.

OR

You decide to play PVE and manage your scaling/character levels. You wont be able to compete in PVP BUT you will be able to play PVE and enjoy the PVE rewards.........


It doesnt seem overly complicated.

TxMoose

Summer Glau wrote:

i say you dug your own hole, don't expect others to dig you out

that said i still think heroics should have limited rosters if only to give 5 starplayers something to do with 4s not named Red Hulk or Iceman

it's a pretty messed up game when the pinnacle of the game. the reward of all rewards of the entire game... is best hamstrung and shelved. the game dug the hole and disrespectful people don't help by piling on...

OneLastGambit

Wjohnson992 wrote:

The game in its current state gives a clear choice. If you want to play PVP you max everyone and PVE scaling be damned, you've decided to be a competitive PVP player, you do that and enjoy it you will get the PVP rewards.

OR

You decide to play PVE and manage your scaling/character levels. You wont be able to compete in PVP BUT you will be able to play PVE and enjoy the PVE rewards.........


It doesnt seem overly complicated.

You're advocating only playing half a game? Would you accept the latest *insert favourite game series* if you could only play half of it?
How would like to like to watch the first half of *insert favourite sports event/movie* and not watch the other half?

Here's one most will understand... How would you like to only be paid half of your salary at a time?

I could understand if the situation you describe and advocate is unavoidable but this is totally and completely avoidable. So why not avoid it?