an solution for baral we can all live with?

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morgue427
morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
edited March 2017 in MtGPQ General Discussion
Had an idea at work(i know shocked me too) how about adding to the ai so that only baral being used by the ai get nerfed while the people that spent the money on it, or eventually pull it in packs get the full use of its abilites? As i see itthe only one that will be hurt is the ai, and unless it is controlling skynet i could care less if it doesn't like it. The added plus of it is it can be used to nerf other problem cards in the future. i know everyone is hoping we can battle live players but not so sure that will happen soon honestly considering the phones would have to communicate with each other real time, which would leave it open to hacking by third parties, and honestly i am not sure if i trust a company to make it secure enough to be hack proof when they dont work for google.

Yes he is broken, and yes i bought it knowing it would be a very strong card, but i know i would be miffed if it got nerfed to common status to keep a bunch of people happy( on the tezz challenge i got niblis of frost up to 467 and baral up to 100 + and have a screen shot if anyone feels they need to see it)
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  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
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    This shouldn't be a scary thing. So many people have suggested ways to nerf Baral which would solve the one-turn wins and endless looping, while leaving him a strong, special, and high-value card.

    It shouldn't be scary. But I can see why it is.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    i say this only because as one who has bought him i would feel ripped off if he got nerfed hard because i wouldnt have bought him and gave them the money for a **** card, and yes he is way over powered honestly but it makes for a long boring game honestly and only use him in decks for events, in fact i do now. He is just that tedious.
  • Gotcha617
    Gotcha617 Posts: 88 Match Maker
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    Give me deploy or Olivia and I won't care...other than that I will be requesting my money back.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    I'll'post the same as I posted elsewhere:

    Baral should remain a serious threat. a one turn win isn't'the problem, the problem is that there aren't'enough answers against baral

    Have baral's power kick in the turn after he comes into play. maybe disable himself when entering battle, or something similar

    up the cost of imprisoned in the moon to 4, it's'seriously undercosted as it is, and shouldnt be part of baral's'cycle. wiping the board eliminates answers to baral

    As far as long turns go (think gonti heart and kiora and nissa loops) what about speeding the animations up after the 5th card played?
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
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    Sorry, but I stopped reading when I read "only for the AI"...

    I think they should start and nerf all their overpowered cards and buff the underpowered for game balance!

    That you paid for a card doesn't mean you have any rights on it. They can change it to 1/1 for 10 mana and you still can't get a refund...

    I have Baral myself, but I don't​ mind if they change it for the health of the game balance.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,227 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Honestly, anyone who bought the card, including myself, should have known by looking at it how powerful it was. There are many viable solutions that cause it to remain a strong card.
  • bashbash
    bashbash Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
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    Baral won't get nerfed until after Rishkar's Expertise comes out and gets sold for the week. We all know how broken that card is too. If Baral gets nerfed, then everyone will be afraid to buy Rishkar's Expertise knowing that a nerf on it is in the future.
  • Phase
    Phase Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
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    bashbash wrote:
    Baral won't get nerfed until after Rishkar's Expertise comes out and gets sold for the week. We all know how broken that card is too. If Baral gets nerfed, then everyone will be afraid to buy Rishkar's Expertise knowing that a nerf on it is in the future.

    Rishkar's Expertise is an event reward. So at least that one will only be in the hands of a few players...
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,935 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There are plenty of great suggestions that the community has given that will help retain its power and not be so broken. My sincerest most optimistic hope is that they are evaluating and testing each one to find the best solution (Haha, I know). But with responses like these :

    viewtopic.php?f=32&t=61718

    It's hard to know if they even understand the problem yet, let alone the solution.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Moon is what should be nerfed.

    They should never nerf cards people spend money on.
  • buscemi
    buscemi Posts: 673 Critical Contributor
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    bken1234 wrote:
    They should never nerf cards people spend money on.

    IFF they don't sell OP cards.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,227 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Moon isn't the problem. It MAY be A problem, but certainly is not THE problem. It's a red herring. Baral decks function without Moon--often better since Moon stalls the cycle.

    Whether they should or shouldn't nerf cards people paid for is irrelevant, since the real issue is that overpowered cards should never make it to market in the first place.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    i have always considered imprison in the moon a 2 edged sword myself, yes i get rid of a troublesome creature but i give him a mana battery to help him put more troublesome creatures out, and with easy buffs it doesnt take long for the moon token to start pumping out serious gains every turn, i try to use it sparingly personally, and have had it come back to bite me more than once. it is cheap and effective but dangerous also. and on one turn decks it can only be cast on your creatures because they are all that it is out, so it soon becomes a dead card to baral.
  • amcoff02
    amcoff02 Posts: 1
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    The card is broken, often he wins the turn he hits the board. Nerf him, remove him, I don't care. it's ridiculous to play against. I honestly don't care if you spent money on the card or not either. Your spending habits should have zero impact about the play of the game. It's extremely overpowered and ridiculous. It should not affect cards drawn into the hand. It shouldn't affect that many card types.
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
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    madwren wrote:
    Moon isn't the problem. It MAY be A problem, but certainly is not THE problem. It's a red herring. Baral decks function without Moon--often better since Moon stalls the cycle.

    Whether they should or shouldn't nerf cards people paid for is irrelevant, since the real issue is that overpowered cards should never make it to market in the first place.

    Too bad it did. But it is not the first. Olivia is also another OP card that was sold for cash.

    If anything deserves a nerf, Olivia and Koth both requires netfing first. I have lost more games to Olivia/Koth decks than Baral decks.

    So far in the latest NoP and BP events, I have played about 20 Baral decks. didn't lose to any yet because all of them fizzles out. also, you can spot them when the ai starting unloading cheap 3 mana spells at you.

    If you see a Aetherflux reservoir being played, most likely it is also a Baral deck. Unless it is an Ob deck. I use reservoir in my ob decks.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    that is what i do also when i come against a baral deck i see cheap spells i make sure to have a kill ready, it is great but the idea of the deck is to have one creature really rest spells so it can be hard to get him first round, god knows even having him in 2 creature and a support deck it is a **** shoot getting him, honestly niblis of frost with the cheap spells in a rai deck can do a pretty good job wiping players. better nerf it quick
  • Astralwind
    Astralwind Posts: 98 Match Maker
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    Imprisoned in the moon is a card that has a downside only against a heavy fabricate opponent, the moon becomes a decent mana gain creature.
    Another problem would be causing the first position to be taken up, rendering cards that target first opponent creature less effective.

    Other than the above, moon takes up 1 out of 3 slots permanently and limits the opponent's creature potential. Not for a human player but for an AI player.
    It is also a cheap and fast way to remove a creature.
    You can also kill your own creatures and buff up moon for some extra mana gains.

    I think it's a good card with just a little downside. I would still use it if it costs 4 or 5 mana.
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    I'm seeing a lot of people saying Baral isn't the most OP because it can fizzle out. To me, that's not the point. The point is that a significant amount of time, the AI takes forever to loop, spending a significant amount of time until I can find out whether it's going to literally kill me the turn it plays the Baral, so there's no chance to interact (yes, I save kill spells up and place them in the bottom of my hand, to avoid mana drain. I know how to play the game), or whether I'll have a chance to interact. I shouldn't need to wait 4-5 (sometimes up to 10) minutes to find out if I lose or not. It's a poor design and incredibly irritating to play against.

    My argument is not that I lose to Baral. My argument is that I literally don't want to play against him because he makes the experience a bad one. This is not the same as Olivia/Koth/Pig/Ulrich/Startled Awake/Deploy, which are all equally overpowered but have quick interactions (and allow for interaction).
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,227 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Indeed. My argument, for some time now, has been that cards that cause extended loops are a negative for the game.

    Whether or not that card can be beaten is irrelevant. This is a matter of game experience and interactivity.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    have to agree with that also, i dont mind losing but not even getting the chance to lose because of such long loops does make it discouraging to say the least.

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