Help me understand PvE scoring

DarthDeVo

So I just finished up the Meet Rocket & Groot event. Despite grinding every node to 1 in every sub, I finished 17th, 438 points shy of 10th. I had a late start on the opening sub, so I'm not terribly surprised I didn't get T10. Now, this may have had more to do with the fact that Peggy was the placement reward. I know that's what I was gunning for. There was only 890 points between me in 17th place and first place, 453 between first and 10th (and 8 between 10th and 11th; sucks to be THAT guy).

Here's the part I don't understand though. I had a late start on the first sub, but was there when the second (48 hour) and third (24 hour) sub opened. After the first four clears I was in 5th place for the second sub and 3rd place for the third sub. Yet, I wasn't even able to finish T10 in those individual subs, despite playing each node down to one.

So please, help me understand: How can I go from 5th and 3rd place, play all the nodes down to one, and finish outside the top 10 for those individual subs?

The only thing I can think of is that sometimes I'll do a 5th clear with about four hours left so that I only have to do two final clears with about an hour left instead of three clears with about an hour and a half or an hour and fifteen minutes left. I don't know, maybe I'm starting my final grind too early and not getting enough points that way, but would it really make that much of a difference that it would boot me out of the top 10?

There's been a couple of times that I started my final grind with what I thought was enough time, but I ended up running out of time and missing out on grinding a node or two down to one. So I've decided I would rather start a little early and make sure I get the points rather than start late and miss out on points altogether. But would that really be such a spread that it negates the fact that I was 5th and 3rd after the initial clear? I know finishing earlier means my timers start earlier, so I should be getting more points for each of my subsequent clears. So how am I losing so much ground?

jgomes32

You kind of answered your own question. For T10 you need to clear and grind around 90min tops. Your grind is too early.

Edit for some comparison: Got #3 in bracket with 70010 (60-80min clears, 90-100min grinds). #10 was 69509 and #1 70204.

DarthDeVo

jgomes32 wrote:

You kind of answered your own question. For T10 you need to clear and grind around 90min tops. Your grind is too early.

Edit for some comparison: Got #3 in bracket with 70010 (60-80min clears, 90-100min grinds). #10 was 69509 and #1 70204.

I think my clears for the second and third subs were somewhere in the 45-50 minute mark. Definitely not more than 50 minutes. The 48 hour sub gets a little wonky with timing for the subsequent clears, but the final sub I did a fifth clear with about three hours remaining, then the final two clears with an hour left. And that's apparently enough to negate finishing third place after the initial clear.

Something else I remembered that's bothering me. After the second sub, I was in about 8th place overall. After the initial clear of the final sub, I was in (I think) 6th place overall for the event, which is where I hovered for most of the day. I figured it would be close but that I could squeak out a T10 finish. To drop all the way to 17th after having been in 6th place almost all day long blows my mind. I just don't understand where these people come up with all these extra points at the very end.

EDIT: I should pick your slice. I would've made T10 with my 69627. You would have been 12th in my bracket. Top score in your bracket would have been 8th place in mine. Top score in mine was 70517.

Freelancer

Did you remember the nodes in the Main Event hub?

I've often missed out on points when the Main hub has repeatable nodes.

DarthDeVo

Freelancer wrote:

Did you remember the nodes in the Main Event hub?

I've often missed out on points when the Main hub has repeatable nodes.

Yep, got all those.

It's less the overall score that bothers me and more the scoring on the individual subs. To fall from 5th and 3rd place to somewhere outside the top 10... I just don't understand how that happens, especially when I'm grinding down to one point on all the nodes.

Pants1000

Sounds like you started your grind too soon. R&G is a pretty easy event, so it had some very fast clears. The top players were doing clears and grinds under 60 minutes.

I occasionally go for top 10, and it takes timing your grind well, not just grinding to 1. Plus I think more people tried for top 10 with Peggy as the reward.

Do NOT hit each node once with 3-4 hours left if you want top 10. That's where you are losing the most points.

jgomes32

DarthDeVo wrote:

jgomes32 wrote:

You kind of answered your own question. For T10 you need to clear and grind around 90min tops. Your grind is too early.

Edit for some comparison: Got #3 in bracket with 70010 (60-80min clears, 90-100min grinds). #10 was 69509 and #1 70204.

I think my clears for the second and third subs were somewhere in the 45-50 minute mark. Definitely not more than 50 minutes. The 48 hour sub gets a little wonky with timing for the subsequent clears, but the final sub I did a fifth clear with about three hours remaining, then the final two clears with an hour left. And that's apparently enough to negate finishing third place after the initial clear.

Something else I remembered that's bothering me. After the second sub, I was in about 8th place overall. After the initial clear of the final sub, I was in (I think) 6th place overall for the event, which is where I hovered for most of the day. I figured it would be close but that I could squeak out a T10 finish. To drop all the way to 17th after having been in 6th place almost all day long blows my mind. I just don't understand where these people come up with all these extra points at the very end.

EDIT: I should pick your slice. I would've made T10 with my 69627. You would have been 12th. Top score in your bracket would have been 8th place in mine. Top score in mine was 70517.

Basically it's race lol, some people are crazy fast. I'm in S3 for the most part but based on my occasional experiences in S2 and 4 it's the same. I go with S3 for RL reasons not because i think/feel it's easier.

But how would i be 12th with 70k and you t10 with 69k

Pants1000

Doing a little math, a 500-point node regains about 7 points per hour. If you hit 9 nodes 3 hours early, that's about 200 points you're giving up. The points vary depending on the event and the sub, but it's a good ballpark number.

200 points isn't much when you're going for progression, but it's huge when going for the top.

DarthDeVo

jgomes32 wrote:

DarthDeVo wrote:

jgomes32 wrote:

You kind of answered your own question. For T10 you need to clear and grind around 90min tops. Your grind is too early.

Edit for some comparison: Got #3 in bracket with 70010 (60-80min clears, 90-100min grinds). #10 was 69509 and #1 70204.

I think my clears for the second and third subs were somewhere in the 45-50 minute mark. Definitely not more than 50 minutes. The 48 hour sub gets a little wonky with timing for the subsequent clears, but the final sub I did a fifth clear with about three hours remaining, then the final two clears with an hour left. And that's apparently enough to negate finishing third place after the initial clear.

Something else I remembered that's bothering me. After the second sub, I was in about 8th place overall. After the initial clear of the final sub, I was in (I think) 6th place overall for the event, which is where I hovered for most of the day. I figured it would be close but that I could squeak out a T10 finish. To drop all the way to 17th after having been in 6th place almost all day long blows my mind. I just don't understand where these people come up with all these extra points at the very end.

EDIT: I should pick your slice. I would've made T10 with my 69627. You would have been 12th. Top score in your bracket would have been 8th place in mine. Top score in mine was 70517.

Basically it's race lol, some people are crazy fast. I'm in S3 for the most part but based on my occasional experiences in S2 and 4 it's the same. I go with S3 for RL reasons not because i think/feel it's easier.

But how would i be 12th with 70k and you t10 with 69k

Yeah, I wasn't very clear with that, so I edited it for clarity. I would have been T10 with my score in your bracket, while your score would have gotten you 12th place in my bracket.

I go with slice 4 because that's pretty much the only one that will fit my RL schedule. Slices two and three are out because I wouldn't be able to do a final grind while I'm at work. Slice five is out because I can't stay up that late to do a grind AND subsequent clear for the following sub. I could maybe do slice one, but I would have to get up suuuuuuper early for the final grind, and I am NOT a morning person. So slice 4 it is.

Pongie

I lost to #1 by 40 points. Across 3 subs, that's roughly 13 points per sub. 1-2 points each node. That's a difference of 10-15 mins. Though to be fair I wasn't really playing for placement. Just wanted iso

DarthDeVo

Pants1000 wrote:

Doing a little math, a 500-point node regains about 7 points per hour. If you hit 9 nodes 3 hours early, that's about 200 points you're giving up. The points vary depending on the event and the sub, but it's a good ballpark number.

200 points isn't much when you're going for progression, but it's huge when going for the top.

Hmmmm... I didn't know this was a thing. I thought the only thing that really mattered was how fast you finished your initial clear. I knew getting to the point that the timers started quicker meant more points gained on the back end when the grind started.

But I just figured that getting one of the clears out of the way a few hours early would mean a little higher score temporarily, and then you would get the rest of the points at the end of the grind. In other words, I thought it was a fixed amount of points once the timer started, and the only variable was how quickly you get through the initial clear to get those timers going.

Although now that I think about it, this does make sense, as if you would grind to one point right away, you don't make up enough points on the back end.

Well... ****. I guess I'm gonna have to adjust my play style to do three clears in my final grind with about 90 minutes or so left. I really liked spreading them out a little bit.

beyonderbub

I'm in Slice 4 as well and had a comparable experience. Was in 5th overall after 2nd sub. Ended up dropping to 10th with 69842 after the event end. 1st place had 70304. With 69627, you would have been 12th in my bracket.

On top of doing the initial 4* clear as fast as possible, you probably also need to start your final grind as close to the end of the subevent as possible and finish right at the very end as well. Those nodes in the main event page are tricky to time right as well for optimal clearing.

Clearing all nodes that 1x 5 hours probably hurt you the most. Someone earlier said that might have cost you around 200 Pts., which looks about the difference in our scores. Rough guesstimate.

Bowgentle

DarthDeVo wrote:

Well... tinykitty. I guess I'm gonna have to adjust my play style to do three clears in my final grind with about 90 minutes or so left. I really liked spreading them out a little bit.

That won't get you T10, either.

You have to do 3 clears in 60 minutes at the end, no room for error, no starting early, no spreading out.

DarthDeVo

Bowgentle wrote:

DarthDeVo wrote:

Well... tinykitty. I guess I'm gonna have to adjust my play style to do three clears in my final grind with about 90 minutes or so left. I really liked spreading them out a little bit.

That won't get you T10, either.

You have to do 3 clears in 60 minutes at the end, no room for error, no starting early, no spreading out.

I've gotten T10 on a number of occasions with the aforementioned play style. I just think that with this particular event rewarding Peggy, people were playing extra optimally, which was enough to squeeze me out. And this was the first time I can recall where the points and placement discrepancy was really obvious. That, and I think with the time change slice 4 got a few other players that are pretty high end. There were definitely a few names I didn't recognize mixed in with the usual suspects on the leaderboard.

Quebbster

The Daylight saving time shift may have caused some people from non-US time zones to have picked different time slices, too. I know I did.

metallion

Another thing is what order you starting your timers. Obviously the higher scoring nodes regenerate points faster than the lower nodes, so you need to start the timers of the harder nodes first so you have more points during your grind. I have no data of whether its better to clear all nodes 3 times first before starting the timer, or to quickly open up all nodes and doing the 3 remaining clears to start the timer. I grinded just once for Medusa release using my first method with extremely optimal grinds and fast starts, and I got 2nd place, just a couple points behind first

And also, you need to know how fast you can clear your grind so you can estimate when to start, the best is if you can finish just before the sub ends, maybe 1-2 mins. For that medusa release I did my grind for the first sub 10 minutes too late and missed out on a couple points, so I adjusted my timings and for the next 2 subs I finished my grinds with max 2 mins remaining. Never bothered to attempt that again because it left me in a huge amount of stress as the sub timer went down.

shuusin

I think it's also worth pointing out that the early subs of an event are generally worth less than the later subs of an event. So a top finish in the final sub is worth more, sometimes significantly more, than a top finish in an early sub.

chamber44

How to understand PvE scoring, in one easy step.

1) Despite setting alarms, missing sleep, ignoring your friends, family, life, and job, you will not play enough.

Nordlys

I really think the placement reward structure needs changing.

I knew I had to play hard since Peggy is up for grabs. Ended with 70163 at #5, only 32 points ahead of #6. I would be really disappointed if i got squeezed out of T5.

However, what really bothered me was that all T3 players had full out champed 5* rosters. I know scaling is a thing, and I count myself lucky that I have IM40 and Dr. Strange among my first few 3* champs. Still, my roster can't compete with lv 450 OML, PHX, and Strange. I can't even imagine how other 3*-4* transitioners with less ideal PVE characters can comptete for placement covers.

The kicker? This is SLC 7. It's extremely discouraging for players with 3* rosters having to fight for 4* covers against 5* vets. Now that many good classic 4* are vaulted, there are basically no reliable way to get those covers.

Quebbster

Nordlys wrote:

I really think the placement reward structure needs changing.

I knew I had to play hard since Peggy is up for grabs. Ended with 70163 at #5, only 32 points ahead of #6. I would be really disappointed if i got squeezed out of T5.

However, what really bothered me was that all T3 players had full out champed 5* rosters. I know scaling is a thing, and I count myself lucky that I have IM40 and Dr. Strange among my first few 3* champs. Still, my roster can't compete with lv 450 OML, PHX, and Strange. I can't even imagine how other 3*-4* transitioners with less ideal PVE characters can comptete for placement covers.

The kicker? This is SLC 7. It's extremely discouraging for players with 3* rosters having to fight for 4* covers against 5* vets. Now that many good classic 4* are vaulted, there are basically no reliable way to get those covers.

Champion fivestars aren't exactly an asset in PvE, they bring your scaling up to monstrous levels and you are more or less forced to use the fivestars all the time.

Nordlys

Quebbster wrote:

Nordlys wrote:

I really think the placement reward structure needs changing.

I knew I had to play hard since Peggy is up for grabs. Ended with 70163 at #5, only 32 points ahead of #6. I would be really disappointed if i got squeezed out of T5.

However, what really bothered me was that all T3 players had full out champed 5* rosters. I know scaling is a thing, and I count myself lucky that I have IM40 and Dr. Strange among my first few 3* champs. Still, my roster can't compete with lv 450 OML, PHX, and Strange. I can't even imagine how other 3*-4* transitioners with less ideal PVE characters can comptete for placement covers.

The kicker? This is SLC 7. It's extremely discouraging for players with 3* rosters having to fight for 4* covers against 5* vets. Now that many good classic 4* are vaulted, there are basically no reliable way to get those covers.

Champion fivestars aren't exactly an asset in PvE, they bring your scaling up to monstrous levels and you are more or less forced to use the fivestars all the time.

True, but I feel that doesn't really change my point. Scaling aside, I would assume that lv468 OML, lv453 Thanos and lv 455 Strange (from #1 player of my slice) will always clear content faster than my lv177 Strange, lv176 IM40, plus perhaps a lv250 boosted 3* of the event? If this is not the case I stand corrected.

The #1 player played the fastest and got most points, so he got 3 covers. That's how placement works, I get it. Doesn't change the fact that it sucks when you know he's feeding 3 (or in my case, 1 blue) covers you could really use to bring his Peggy from lv301 to 304

Also, speaking of being forced to use certain characters, i feel that it is already happening to some extent, but for a different reason. if I want good placement I have to stick with IM40 battery, Strange on goons, and Thanos for the early trivial nodes. I could play Patch Loki Mags, it's a fun team, but not fast enough. I understand 5* rosters don't have the option of using non 5*s, but that's an entirely different discussion.