Change Imprisoned in the Moon to 4 mana

ridfrenzy

This is a sort of fix to Baral but with this we would actually get to put a big defender out and it wouldn't get mooned four times in a row before it got chance to block.

wereotter

I posted recently that as is, all removal, not just this one, is too cheap, and think that this should actually be a 9 mana spell to put it on par with Turn to Frog. 4 mana would help with Baral combos, but still would be too cheap in a general sense.

Ohboy

Blue removal should never be cheaper than black removal.

I say 6 is fair, since frog is 9.

ridfrenzy

I would be happy with it between 6-9 tbh, I suggested 4 as it is a small nerf but not one that people would object too. It seems people are happier with a much bigger nerf and it wuld save them upsetting all the people who spent money on Baral.

Steeme

wereotter wrote:

I posted recently that as is, all removal, not just this one, is too cheap, and think that this should actually be a 9 mana spell to put it on par with Turn to Frog. 4 mana would help with Baral combos, but still would be too cheap in a general sense.

I've gotten used to the fact that people are running 2+ removals in their decks. I understand why: it's generally the only way to keep pace with Koth aggro. Support control is unreliable since he keeps shaking the board and cascading every turn. All you can do is make efficient trades. Doesn't help when most Koth decks run creatures that you must absolutely remove or suffer constant board wipes (Wolf of Devil's Breach, Akoum Hellkite).

By increasing the cost of removal in this game, they will need to rebalance the aggro side of this game as well. You can't just make lop-sided changes like this.

Nevertheless, by increasing Moon to a cost of 4, it is still dirt-cheap and thus would not alter the balance too much in the game, while at the same time stopping the annoying Baral cycles.

wereotter

Steeme wrote:

wereotter wrote:

I posted recently that as is, all removal, not just this one, is too cheap, and think that this should actually be a 9 mana spell to put it on par with Turn to Frog. 4 mana would help with Baral combos, but still would be too cheap in a general sense.

I've gotten used to the fact that people are running 2+ removals in their decks. I understand why: it's generally the only way to keep pace with Koth aggro. Support control is unreliable since he keeps shaking the board and cascading every turn. All you can do is make efficient trades. Doesn't help when most Koth decks run creatures that you must absolutely remove or suffer constant board wipes (Wolf of Devil's Breach, Akoum Hellkite).

By increasing the cost of removal in this game, they will need to rebalance the aggro side of this game as well. You can't just make lop-sided changes like this.

Nevertheless, by increasing Moon to a cost of 4, it is still dirt-cheap and thus would not alter the balance too much in the game, while at the same time stopping the annoying Baral cycles.

My counter argument to that was two-fold. Prior to cheap removal, people relied more on reach, defender, vigilance, and berserker to deal with creatures, so higher cost removal isn't something we can't adjust to. Mostly this was based on frog costing 9 and unholy hunger costing 8 during a time that the most you could get from a 3-gem match was 6.

Also the power creep on creatures doesn't help. Olivia coming out as an 11/11 or Heart of Kiran as a 16/16 has made using defenders and even burn ineffective. So there needs to be a reduction in creature size to address this.

buscemi

Moon is too cheap, but I doubt that this will fix Baral much. As soon as Killwind and Mersicide figure out that you can stall their Baral decks by not playing creatures/playing hexproof, I expect they'll stop playing it.