Puzzle Warriors 3 Episode #80!

XaOs72

All abuzz about Hawkeye

* 2 more Hawkeyes ....
* Space Jem updates ...
* Coulson mini event ...
* Updates to 7 day events ...
* R121

http://www.puzzlewarriors3.com/pw3-e80.html

LFChikarason

- someone once told me that 'Button, button' thing was a drug refernce
- almost died of 'brain shutdown'
- you could have just returned the hoodie...
- I do like the cut of that rocky Horror's slot machine's jib
- Next week starts the new Crash Schedule, starting with Agent Venom maybe, so changes!
- They should do a similar event like the Coulson one for all new four stars, IMO
- It's a me, Deadpool-io!
- All these fixes re: Gun tiles, did people JUST NOW discover Gwenpool?
- Craig with a shout out to the Cherokee Nation...for some reason?
- My bonusing stragtegy has been: heart OML & Mean Jean, since they are my highest fivers, 3 star Storm (my highest 3 star), my woefully undercovered 4 stars (Agent Venom, nuCarol, etc.) and whatever 3/4 stars are close to LTs
- 'Something, something math'
- My Wasp is just recently fully covered 3/5/5, which makes me happy after having to sell three of her covers a month ago. But only level 70, one day she'll get the ISO she needs
- My vine is a Gwenpool cover, I just need the 100,000 ISO in nine days to champ her and assoirted 2 star Thor & Hawkeye covers to replace them when I sell their maxed versions
- My reward of the week was a Bag-Man, now level 119
- The biggest problem with the new Match Game is everyone is sober
- you end with the pickpocketing story?
- I think I got that hint...John Byrne's She-Hulk, right?

WelcomeDeath

Have a few comments about bonus heroes. It definitely negatively impacts newer players attempting to cover the 4* tier in general. Ddq requires a different 4* every day now for the burrito. Before, drawing randomly from a big pool meant that it would be diluted, but you could draw at least one for each 4* eventually so you could play it. Now, that process will take longer, effectively locking them out of 2cp per day. The crash is also based on older 4s, mostly, so that will also be much harder to cover and win. It affects vets, too. People that were champing many of the older 4* have lost a source of champnrewards, especially those that had 75% of the pool covered. Small group, sure, but these were most of the people complaining. They also put a lot of money into the game that others play for free, so its definitely important to keep them happy, just saying.

As far as abandoning 4*, i do think that is a very real thing. Sure, you might try to get a cover for all of them for pve essentials, but theres no real reason to champion an elektra or a mr f st this point (I'm ok with this because it just made my iso defecit much smaller!]

Getting covers for 4* from 3* champ rewards....sure. only 99 champ levels for 3 covers! Seriously, though, thats not a huge source of 4* covers.

Now, you mentioned that whaling all of the 4s would take more, this is definitely true. If you started from 0 older 4* covers, at a 5% shot, and at 85% shot at a 4*, thats about a 4.25% shot at an older 4* cover (1 in 24). Better than the 1 in 49 shot from before....for that one 4*. But thats only if you have them as your only bonus. If you do them consecutively OR pick all 30 oldest, it will take about 720 pulls to get a single cover for the older tier, compared to about 49 before, assuming perfect distribution. If you want to cover all 30, thats 9,360 pulls or about 187,200 cp!
As a gauge, pulling the same cp will give you a 1.5% shot at all the 5* there. At this rate, again assuming even distribution, youd get every single classic 5* champed and up to level 550....and have dupes for every single one champed and at level 464.

Now, I'm not one to whine, and I understand the need to combat dilution. However, it didnt really work with 3* when they did it and was really unpopular. I don't understand trying the same failed approach with 4*. What DID help with 3* was ddq, increased 3* rewards in general, and the emergence of the 4* meta. Well, the 4* are diluted to the same point and 5* is the meta now for top tier players, so its time for the 4* version of ddqs fix, more 4* rewards in general, or just a simple odds fix for bonus heroes from the LT store. 4* bonuses are technically given out for 17% of all 4s pulled from event tokens, the 5% number is based on ALL pulls (2* pulls make the number 5%). Why not make it 17% on LTs? I love the idea of bonus heroes, but I think segregating the tier in this manner was a mistake. The same issue still exists for classic 5s, the number of pulls needed to cover one is getting out of hand, and Bonus heroes did very little to help that (0.75% isnt really a big difference). Anyway, just my thoughts.

UNC_Samurai

I'm posting this here as well as the subreddit. This is the reason Craig was having trouble enunciating "stewardess."

Phil Coulson and Peggy Carter fought a Lip Sync Battle, and we all won:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PZROJJaBM

astrp3

UNC_Samurai wrote:

I'm posting this here as well as the subreddit. This is the reason Craig was having trouble enunciating "stewardess."

Phil Coulson and Peggy Carter fought a Lip Sync Battle, and we all won:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PZROJJaBM

I actually thought he said "stortoise" too, and even before the other guy (sorry other guy, but I don't remember your name and am too lazy to go back and check) mentioned it. And I wondered what the difference between a tortoise and a stortoise was. Is a stortoise a tortoise with his tail on the front?

fmftint

XaOs72 wrote:

All abuzz about Hawkeye

* 2 more Hawkeyes ....
* Space Jem updates ...
* Coulson mini event ...
* Updates to 7 day events ...
* R121

http://www.puzzlewarriors3.com/pw3-e80.html

Misread that as Space Jam

kaelad

Regarding the bonus heroes and 4* cover pull changes from someone starting the 4* transition:

I'm just starting the 4* transition. I was hoarding my CP (currently over 1,100) since I was still spending ISO champing my 3*s. Now I'm down to the last few and ready to start opening some classic LTs and this change happens. I have some good, classic 4* characters with a usable number of covers (6+), but not that many. I still need a lot of covers for these 9 classic 4*s: Nova, Professor X, Iceman, Sam Wilson, Star-Lord, Jean Grey, Deadpool, TA Hulk, and Quake.

Bonus characters is really helpful for getting more 3* covers considering how many elite and heroic tokens the game gives out. Bonus 4* are a little harder to come by since that rarity is ... rarer anyways. That makes it less fun for someone like me to make the 4* transition because it will be harder to get those good, classic 4* characters I've wanted to play with since joining the game almost a year and a half ago. Sure, if I went on an LT opening spree I would get some of the newer 4* characters fully covered, but I'll still only get a couple of bonus covers for those classic 4* characters.

Tony_Foot

I personally felt the "cry babies" stuff was a bit much. They weren't crying they were giving good reasoned arguments as to why the new system didn't work. I read the large thread start to finish and people in the main provided decent information and feedback, to the point the Devs thanked them for the feedback and asked them to continue. I saw no one have anything but good things to say about the Bonus hero system, the negatives where at the Vaulting of heroes.

I think you really need to look at the maths as to why people don't like it, well documented in said thread.

You then said you didn't understand why Vets would even care about new players not getting these heroes, well that's because we know if you don't look after the new players there is no one to replace the old ones that drop away, then you end up losing the game you love to play.

I have a few 4*s I'd love to still champion, the amount of time that will take is absurd even with good luck.

It hurts the champion system, that we all love. Now they want to stop your progression dead on for instance Hulkbuster. How many times did you guys bang on about championing everyone because of the rewards, rewards that now will slow to a crawl or stop if you are unlucky. I put ISO into many 3's and 4's for that reason, because people like you told me the rewards made it worth while.

Again on the new players, how can you have PVE with essentials or in the future 4* PVP when all anyone will get from Vaulted character is one cover at best.

TLDR: Bonus heroes is an awesome feature, but as usual it was poorly implemented. It needed a 4* DDQ daily like they did with 3* or simply move the vaulted toons to classic or a reduced price 10 or so CP 4* only token. No chance or a 5*, but you can add champ levels to those you love to play.

Thanks for a good show, enjoyable as usual.

Jaedenkaal

Good news Ian: Hawkeye does indeed fire a different arrow graphic for each arrow in "Full Quiver" ( Ant-Man Arrow), plus the expiring countdowns also have their own animations. Although, Hawkeye himself always has 4 arrows in his quiver no matter which arrow he's firing, so... that's weird.

shartattack

i thought a stortoise was an obscure pokemon.

RE: bonus heroes: Would people still be upset if they offered a 4* token for 15CP that gave you a random 4 from any 4? Or latest legends following the new set up, while classics offering everyone else?
The only thing i won't like will be having to dedicate all iso to champ the "new 12" or be content with selling off covers. I keep getting Riri, which I will hopefully become happy about after they inevitably fix her.

this is quickly becoming "Ray, the obscure 70s pop culture guy, and the guy who is apathetic about the topic of the podcast.
that being said, I really like the show!

stochasticism

Vaulted heroes are removed from ALL tokens not just legendaries. You can't use any token to get vaulted heros which was by far the easiest way to get covers. You can verify this by looking at the token odds. It is now a LOT harder to get covers for older characters. Honestly the whole tone of this conversation was very dismissive of valid player complaints.

Curious how you all did with the Xfw crash. It's not easy at all with unchamped an Xfw.

"waves piling on" -> living weapons. Totally 4* Fist.

JeffCascadian

fmftint wrote:

XaOs72 wrote:

All abuzz about Hawkeye

* 2 more Hawkeyes ....
* Space Jem updates ...
* Coulson mini event ...
* Updates to 7 day events ...
* R121

http://www.puzzlewarriors3.com/pw3-e80.html

Misread that as Space Jam

You're supposed to mis-read it that way since, properly spell'd, it would be Space Gem.

Tatercat

I am loving LEGION right now, even the parts that I don’t understand. I am still afraid the season is going to end with the entire cast just be parts of his personality and he’s imagined everything, but this week’s episode hit the a scary sweet spot you normally don’t see superhero fare hit. (the Yellow Eyed Devil has got to be Shadow King, right?)

Plus this week’s episode had a mutant storming the D3 headquarters (not kidding on that name) and decimating everyone inside that was oppressing him! It’s like a forum member was writing the script!

There was a lot of vitriol on the forums after that vaulting change, some of the ugliest I’ve ever seen here, coming from people pro- and anti- the change. Even people whose points I agreed with were overly negative toward anyone disagreeing them, no matter how non-confrontational the post was. Made me feeling like boycotting the forums, not the game, by Friday.

But man, that Wasp update was too sweet to keep me away. I champed her a little while ago, as I always liked the character and had the extra covers. I could see the potential in that 4*Carol/3*Blade combo, but there was still a lot of issue on each power keeping her from being great. This update fixed all of them. I run her at 5/3/5, as the AP steal is the same for her Blue at 3 or 5 covers, and the countdown is so quick it rarely gets matched away in time (so far) and not at all in goon node fights. If it targeted the enemy’s strongest color, maybe I would reconsider, but her yellow and black are great at 5. Her behemoth burrito node today with Falcon and Bullseye should open a lot of eyes on her.

Because of the new system, I’ve been flooded with those twelve 4*’s so I’ve got a lot of maxed covers forcing me to hoard until I’ve got the iso to champ Carol, Blade, Spider Woman, Gwenpool, and Riri. (plus a 12 covered Medusa, 3/4/5). But because I’m weak willed and had to try to get the new 5*, I’ve now got 2 Blade covers and a Carol dying on the vine, plus another Medusa purple I can’t use from a bonus hero pull. (I switched to Coulson afterwards). I’m starting to think its not worth getting top 10 in a new character release anymore. Those covers are coming soon anyway, whether I want them or not.

Update: Just heard the clue, my guess is 4* Capt marvel. 4 walls make a room, a movie called ROOM starred Brie Larsen, who will Carol in the upcoming movie. (But she would look good in Disco Dazzler gear as well)

Starsaber

stochasticism wrote:

Vaulted heroes are removed from ALL tokens not just legendaries. You can't use any token to get vaulted heros which was by far the easiest way to get covers. You can verify this by looking at the token odds. It is now a LOT harder to get covers for older characters. Honestly the whole tone of this conversation was very dismissive of valid player complaints.

Curious how you all did with the Xfw crash. It's not easy at all with unchamped an Xfw.

"waves piling on" -> living weapons. Totally 4* Fist.

Except Vault tokens (PVE, DDQ, and Special). I don't have it handy now, but on another thread, I gave a list of 6 ways to get "vaulted" heroes

JeffCascadian

--The skywalk sounds amazing. A few years ago, I would have been too scared to go out onto it. Now I know that I have the ability to overcome great fear. It's a better way to live my life. Good for you, Ray, on doing it despite your fear.
--The mini Coulson event was da bomb. It was a great story with some great rewards. I like that the Coulson cover at the end was random.
--Here's what I needed in my life: two more Hawkeyes. I only have one so far but I'll have the 5-star soon, too.
--How is Craig doing for "catching them all?" I'm only missing the 5-stars of Black Panther and Hawkeye now.
--"Waves piling on." Hmmm. Craig's idea would both be great were we not sure those two characters are on the DNU list. If we go with the idea of sound waves, it could be Black Panther's enemy Klaw.
--I agree with the idea of putting the older 4-stars in the Classic Legends store even though it's detrimental to me. I'd rather have the covers to the newer 4-stars and I'd also rather spend 20CP instead of 25. For the greater good of the game, I think the 4-stars, like the 5-stars, should be decided between the two Legendary stores.
--I happen to be at the point where I have some of the best classic 4-stars already Champion'd: Iceman, Rulk, Thor, Punisher, Nova...all Champions. I still have sympathy for those who don't. The other three players in my house don't and, at this rate, won't.
--I *have* to care about newer players. First, it's simply in my nature. Second, the game will die unless the game is friendly to new players.
--I've received one Bonus Hero 4-star thus far: Thing. That sure felt good.
--My Wasp is only 4/0/0 and only since the became one of 12 possible 4-stars. I did use her today and the swapping between Protect to Strike and back was good.
--My vine is a black Mr. Fantastic that's going to be sold next week. I could just sell him now. He's 1/3/5 so there's just no way I'm going to have 13 covers on him before that black one expires.

UNC_Samurai

fmftint wrote:

XaOs72 wrote:

All abuzz about Hawkeye

* 2 more Hawkeyes ....
* Space Jem updates ...
* Coulson mini event ...
* Updates to 7 day events ...
* R121

http://www.puzzlewarriors3.com/pw3-e80.html

Misread that as Space Jam

Come on and Slam!
And welcome to Space Gem!

WelcomeDeath

One more thing on vaulted 4*. Sure, you can get them from pvp progression...if you can hit 900. Pvp placement - if you can get at least 1200+ in an easy bracket. Pve placement - if you can score at least 1.5x max progression in an easy bracket. Pve progression...thats anyone. Vaults, if you whale them or get insanely lucky. Every other token? Sure, one cover for one character if you pull 100 tokens. So, really the only reliable way to get them is pve progression....1 out of every 44 events (more when more are added!) and 1 out of every 100 heroics and other event tokens (unless its a vault and your favorite isnt in there), and 1 out of every 24 LTs...for ONE older 4. Not exactly breakneck speed. If they hadnt vaulted and left bonus pulls youd still have a highee chance at them, even higher than it is now since theyd actually be in tokens.