Poll - Ranked Pool or new Pool?

OneLastGambit

After reading one of the (many) threads on vaulting and bonus heroes I got curious and decided to make this poll.

Options are simple, if I had a magic wand and could wave either of these two changes upon the game which would you pick?

A vaulting system whereby the forum ranked t12 were available and everyone else was vaulted.

- OR -

The current system of the newest 12.


Pros of Ranked Pool:
1. You will be able the forum ranked t12 faster
2. Your focus will be only on the characters which the forum ranks highly so you could be competitive quicker

Cons
1. The forum ranked t12 may not be the same as your personal choices
2. The forum ranking is very subjective.
3. Diversity will suffer
4. The ranked pool will never change - because you cant add someone into the t12 who nobody has ever used before.

Happy voting

broll

I vote top 12, but prefer they just not vault any of them. Give us multiple pack options instead.

mckauhu

I would prefer with Latest Legends pulling newest characters and with Older Legends pulling older characters. Not an option in this poll?

Alsmir

Neither.

I'd rather pull randomly out of 45 characters, than somebody deciding for me which characters I could get.


Why are you so obsessed with convincing everybody that vaulting is good?

whycantwesyncpc

Where is the option for doing the smart thing, no vaulting?

firethorne

I vote none of the above. The only system where a pool of twelve makes any sense is a system where each individual player gets to build their own personalized pool, and can modify their pool at will. No forum voting. No random selection.

OneLastGambit

OK to address some of the comments:

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. The purpose of any poll (in my opinion) is purely exploratory.

I did not include the option of no vaulting on purpose under 2 assumptions :

A: that everyone would prefer no vaulting and thus no need for the poll

B: We will have vaulting whether we like it or not so the purpose then becomes trying to decide which type of vaulting is most preferable.

OneLastGambit

firethorne wrote:

I vote none of the above. The only system where a pool of twelve makes any sense is a system where each individual player gets to build their own personalized pool, and can modify their pool at will. No forum voting. No random selection.

This is actually the best way to do vaulting for a couple of reasons:

1. Players will decide their progress
2. When players (inevitably) choose not to include the same junk characters (looking at you legion of venoms) then the devs will know where to focus their rebalancing.

Vaulting isn't the problem here - its the lack of choice that is. Who doesn't want a smaller token pool where its quicker and easier to cover someone?

broll

OneLastGambit wrote:

B: We will have vaulting whether we like it or not so the purpose then becomes trying to decide which type of vaulting is most preferable.

I don't think that's true. They've tried vaulting in the past and went away from it plus:

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

Certainly no guarantee they come back with no vaulting, but from an outsiders perspective it would seem one of the easiest changes to make would be to just unvault characters. Laying down and just allowing them to make bad decisions that do the game a disservice should not be our stance, we should fight it as long as we can! They stand to lose a lot of paying customers and players if they don't undo this.

Mechahamster

We currently have elite tokens and heroic tokens. Why not have the 12 newest 3 and 4 in the heroic tokens, and the rest in the elite tokens?

OneLastGambit

broll wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

B: We will have vaulting whether we like it or not so the purpose then becomes trying to decide which type of vaulting is most preferable.

I don't think that's true. They've tried vaulting in the past and went away from it plus:

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

Certainly no guarantee they come back with no vaulting, but from an outsiders perspective it would seem one of the easiest changes to make would be to just unvault characters. Laying down and just allowing them to make bad decisions that do the game a disservice should not be our stance, we should fight it as long as we can! They stand to lose a lot of paying customers and players if they don't undo this.

I can see your points there but like I said the purpose of the poll is purely exploratory and not intended for anything other than interesting data (maybe only for me to be interested in). The question I wanted to answer was if vaulting was permanent what type of vaulting is preferable.

SnowcaTT

Forum can be filled with people that are [self censored...]

I'd rather pick my own 12. Or rather...I'd rather pick a pool of "all the old ones" (classic) vs "all the new ones" (You know....the meaning of "Latest"....)

tgibbs40

I didn't vote. I don't want the new 12 and I don't want the forum to decide the 12 I get.

I vote for the bonus heroes to be changed to this: Whichever characters you have "favorited" are not vaulted and you will receive those in your vault pulls, pack pulls, AND as Bonus heroes (when you get them).

astrp3

OneLastGambit wrote:

4. The ranked pool will never change - because you cant add someone into the t12 who nobody has ever used before.
Happy voting

I'm not sure it will never change. Don't they rerun those polls periodically? Even if they do, of course, the polls will be out of date and there will be a lag between the time new characters are added and/or old characters are buffed/nerfed and the next poll.

Another option is to have the forum vote on which characters they want to see in the stores (which may not be the same as which ones are best) but that has other issues (it could be skewed by players who already have the top 4*s champed, etc.)

One con I see with these options is that D3 could lose money (I think some players who had the top 12 4*s wouldn't feel the need to get any of the others) - though I suppose you're only listing pros and cons for the players, not for D3.

BoyWonder1914

Still don't understand why they can't just have the latest 12 in the "latest" store, and everyone else in the "classic" store like they do with the 5s. Don't see the merit of a ranked pool because there's certain characters that would just never end up in there. Well that is, if the point of your question is to try and address the vaulting issue.

Jaedenkaal

astrp3 wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

4. The ranked pool will never change - because you cant add someone into the t12 who nobody has ever used before.
Happy voting

I'm not sure it will never change. Don't they rerun those polls periodically? Even if they do, of course, the polls will be out of date and there will be a lag between the time new characters are added and/or old characters are buffed/nerfed and the next poll.

His point is, if they're not in the current 12, you can't (under this model) get them from tokens. Since you can't get them, you'll never know if they're any good, so they'll never get more votes than the established 12. -Maybe- the ones in 12-13th place shuffle around a bit as people decide they'd rather have the old 13th place one back instead of the current 12th place but that's probably about it. No one would vote for Carol to be in the top 12 without actually playing with her, I suspect.

broll

OneLastGambit wrote:

4. The ranked pool will never change - because you cant add someone into the t12 who nobody has ever used before.
Happy voting

Which is why XFW is #1 and no other 4*s are ranked.

JHawkInc

It's less about "what's in the pool(s)", and more about "can I get stuff that isn't in the pool(s)?"

The only characters that are 100% unavailable from regular tokens should be Yelena (vaulted due to obsolescence), Bag-Man (same), Devil Dino (special occasion character), and Howard (same as Dino).

They want to put pools on Heroics and Event tokens and even Vaults, I don't care. Making it so Heroics only have the latest 12 4*s is actually a neat way to encourage the new characters, and make them slightly easier to cover.

But everyone should be available, somehow. The old classics, as dilute as they were, worked because ALL 4*s were an option (minus the aforementioned special two). For 5*s, it worked because classics and latest covered everyone. No single pack had everyone, but between the two they did, so you could pick and choose based on who you wanted.

PVE events have three essentials, one each of 2*, 3*, and 4*, PVP requires a 3* the vast majority of the time, DDQ requires a 3* each day, a 4* every 5, and a new combo of 2*/3*/4* each day. Those factors encourage a broad roster. The Champion system allows you to take a character fully covered (13/13), and continue to level them with the next ONE HUNDRED COVERS you acquire for that character. Advancement encourages repeated collection of covers. Thus, the most desirable outcome as a player is to acquire a large number of ALL covers (ISO non-withstanding).

So that's what matters. Whether in a single token or in a series of pools, all characters should be available. This is most glaring with the 4*s, but I believe it applies to the 3*s as well. Simply having two Heroic tokens, each with half of the available 3*s, could fix that problem. A classic legendary token with all 4*s could help things there, regardless of whether or not the rest of the tokens have pools or not. If they go for the latest 12 4*s in Latest Legends, it doesn't matter as much if those 12 are in the Classic Legends, so long as everyone else IS in the Classic token.

The problem isn't the pool, it's getting to play with everyone not allowed in the pool. Getting weird with how you pick pools does not fix the problem of having pools in the first place.

JamieMadrox

Where's the option for each person to choose their 12? TBH I'd rather choose myself, like Bonus Heroes, than be stuck with whatever Demiurge or a bunch of people on the Internet decide on.

Crowl

I vote none of the above, they needless force people to restrict their potential progress too much.

The aim of vaulting is a tricky one as it should be to minimise the downsides from any loss of championing rewards, while also trying reduce the impact of dilution on progress and at the same time increase the rate of acquisition of the newest covers.

The best compromise for these somewhat competing aims would seem to be something like split the currently vaulted 4*s into two groups, each season the possible 4*s would come from one of those groups (and would rotate from season to season), in addition to these covers the tokens would also always include the latest 12 characters too.

Net result, progress on newer characters is still faster than it was before, but not at the expense of killing progress on the rest of the tier.

JamieMadrox

Added "None of the above" option to the poll. Polls need to be unbiased and have a negative option.