It should be very low chance to loot a dupe rare or mythic

JerBear
JerBear Posts: 21
edited March 2017 in MtGPQ General Discussion
I don't know what the chances are, maybe they are low already, but I see people talking about looking dupes of these cards and I cringe. We all know the amount of grind that goes into this game so to get a dupe of a rare or mythic is a huge slap in the face it seems. would be nice if you could trade one in at least for another of the same color or something if it happened. But IMO it shouldn't happen to begin with.
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Comments

  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS
  • Nitymp
    Nitymp Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nitymp wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.

    Would make it a pretty bad rng.
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Ohboy wrote:
    Nitymp wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.

    Would make it a pretty bad rng.

    Not to mention a horrible business model.
  • Nitymp
    Nitymp Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
    Yeah I agree with both that its not RNG and a bad business model and wasn't necessarily agreeing with OP - was just clarifying that OP probably wasn't saying it should be statistically impossible.

    On a side note, you can't get dupes in Magic Duels so it can't be too terrible a business model. Certainly less gamble-y.
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Nitymp wrote:
    On a side note, you can't get dupes in Magic Duels so it can't be too terrible a business model. Certainly less gamble-y.

    A bit of apples and oranges comparison, but point taken. There you loot from a bigger card pool with duplicates up to the rarity limit, and use those duplicates in deck construction of single cards. I also think the pool is much larger, and a little less generous with the free card purchase currency than this app is, relatively speaking. I think it's roughly equivalent how many pulls you need there versus here to collect a full set, but it does eliminate a degree of randomness factor entirely but I think chasing mythics there is still a frustrating prospect.

    There's enough differences I'm not sure the comparison is all that straightforward.
  • Nitymp
    Nitymp Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
    James13 wrote:

    There's enough differences I'm not sure the comparison is all that straightforward.

    Yeah fair enough. Its just that I only recently started playing that and just love the fact that I don't get dupes icon_e_smile.gif But yes, not really comparable as completely different games and deckbuilding.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nitymp wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.

    Duplicates are part of the game both here and in physical magic. I've accepted that. However, I will say that any paid mythic should be exempted from your pull options as an incentive to buying it with cash.

    I bought Emrakul and have now pulled her twice from packs. Makes me feel like I've wasted my money.
  • Tigmouse
    Tigmouse Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    Having played MTG in its original, card based format, the tears of the unwanted dupe were as much of a part of buying booster packs as the joy of the unexpected rarety. At least you don't have to collect extras to have more than one in a deck!
  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
    wereotter wrote:
    Nitymp wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.

    Duplicates are part of the game both here and in physical magic. I've accepted that. However, I will say that any paid mythic should be exempted from your pull options as an incentive to buying it with cash.

    I bought Emrakul and have now pulled her twice from packs. Makes me feel like I've wasted my money.
    You havent wasted your money, its called LIMITED exclusivity for a reason getting dupes is part of the fun, getting gisela twice 2 months after you purchased it is also part of the fun its all good.
    System where you could convert X mythics into a chance of new mythic would be good.
  • tiaxotrax
    tiaxotrax Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
    losdamianos wrote:
    System where you could convert X mythics into a chance of new mythic would be good.

    Hell I'd be happy If I could just trade my duplicate mythics with members of my coalition. I don't need 2k runes but I'd love to trade my 4th gisella for my buddies 3rd hangerback walker. then we'd both be happy. After all that's what is possible in real magic. you trade or sell your rares you don't need, to get the rares you don't have.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiaxotrax wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    System where you could convert X mythics into a chance of new mythic would be good.

    Hell I'd be happy If I could just trade my duplicate mythics with members of my coalition. I don't need 2k runes but I'd love to trade my 4th gisella for my buddies 3rd hangerback walker. then we'd both be happy. After all that's what is possible in real magic. you trade or sell your rares you don't need, to get the rares you don't have.

    You also buy all your packs and pay entry fees for tournaments.

    I really hope I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see that happen.
  • Obseen
    Obseen Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    I accept that dupes will happen but at least give us crystals for the rare and mythic dupes instead of runes so we can profit even a little from the stroke of luck getting one of those cards
  • Machine
    Machine Posts: 856 Critical Contributor
    Ohboy wrote:
    tiaxotrax wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    System where you could convert X mythics into a chance of new mythic would be good.

    Hell I'd be happy If I could just trade my duplicate mythics with members of my coalition. I don't need 2k runes but I'd love to trade my 4th gisella for my buddies 3rd hangerback walker. then we'd both be happy. After all that's what is possible in real magic. you trade or sell your rares you don't need, to get the rares you don't have.

    You also buy all your packs and pay entry fees for tournaments.

    I really hope I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see that happen.

    What are you trying to make clear with this statement? It's true that getting a rare or mythic in this game is something that doesn't happen that often. Getting some amount of crystal for duplicates makes sense instead of 200 or 1000 runes respectively. That's just a slap in the face.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm saying that if you're going to compare the two games, then you need to compare everything, not select parts you like to keep and ignore them.
  • wickedwitch74
    wickedwitch74 Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker
    I have not kept accurate statistics of my duplicates, but I will say that it "feels" like when I pull a rare/mythic, more than 50% of the time it is a duplicate, and I own far less than 50% of cards in those rarities.

    Unlike paper magic, a duplicate has no value. Multiple copies of cards are a necessity in paper magic, and you have the ability to trade or sell duplicates that you do not want/need.

    There is no such system in Puzzle Quest, which, I believe, adds to the "feel bad" that we experience upon opening dupes.

    Runes are next to useless to most of the longer term players, and after grinding for hours just to get the guaranteed rare from Quick Battles, it really, really stinks to pull yet another duplicate.

    I would like to see a system that lets you convert duplicates, say at a 3-1 ratio, for new chances at a card of the same rarity. Put three duplicate rares in the magic box, and get a new rare out of it.

    Additionally, converting rares for gems would also reduce the "feel bad" for opening duplicates, and would be far simpler to implement.
  • MTG_Mage
    MTG_Mage Posts: 224 Tile Toppler
    I think the RNG in this game is not functioning properly as evidenced by several reports of getting multiple copies of the same dupe in the same few packs or during the game getting 3+ in a row of the same card. These both happen way Way WAY too often to be a true RNG. I am quite certain the last card you got has an influence on the next one. It really sucks getting 3x of the same dupe rare, and in game it can cost you the match.

    Combine it with the extremely low drop rate for rares and mythics and it is really a slap in the face getting multiple dupes. I can remember how many times I opened a big box and the only rare or better I got was the guaranteed one, and it was a dupe icon_e_sad.gif

    I understand the economics of a low drop rate, and thats ok, but something must be done about dupes. It is very discouraging getting dupes and worse yet when you get multiple in a row.

    I strongly encourage that when converting dupes that rares and mythics only be converted to manacrystal.png and the payout should be high, such as 20 manacrystal.png for a rare and 100 manacrystal.png for a mythic.

    The reason for it to be so high is that crystals can only be used to buy planeswalkers or more cards, and if you just got a bunch of dupes it is very likely that your going to reinvest that back into getting more packs. Considering how few rares/mythics you get in a pack, you will always need to spend more crystals for more packs than you get from converting dupes. Also with the low drop rates, its not so much a slap in the face if you get some crystals for a dupe instead of a low amount of runes.
  • KragHavok
    KragHavok Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    I think that a manacrystal.png trade for mythics and rares makes sense, but you will never get 100 manacrystal.png - that's just crazy talk. Maybe 30 manacrystal.png for a mythic, tops.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ohboy wrote:
    tiaxotrax wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    System where you could convert X mythics into a chance of new mythic would be good.

    Hell I'd be happy If I could just trade my duplicate mythics with members of my coalition. I don't need 2k runes but I'd love to trade my 4th gisella for my buddies 3rd hangerback walker. then we'd both be happy. After all that's what is possible in real magic. you trade or sell your rares you don't need, to get the rares you don't have.

    You also buy all your packs and pay entry fees for tournaments.

    I really hope I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see that happen.

    Yes and you can also buy the individual singles you want to make the deck you're after at any time, and can play for free with your friends in your own home. Also as mentioned you can trade or give away your extra or unwanted cards.

    There's a point at which many of us would like to see something similar impmenented. Even if we trade to the game our duplicate cards for other cards we are trying to get. It would be an especially helpful feature for people absent from the game when older sets were being actively given away. I, for example, wasn't playing during the Zendikar block, and would gladly trade my duplicate Kaladesh cards for Zendikar cards, even if it's a system of something like two duplicates for a random card of the same rarity.
  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    Ohboy wrote:
    Nitymp wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    It shouldnt happen to begin with ??
    I see loads of frustrated people with lack of basic understanding of probability
    Its quite obvious that at the start journey with this wonderful game chances of dupe are minimal and as you progress you get more and more of dupes
    basic logic dictates that.
    Anyone who questions this or is frustrated please send me a video of 10 dices and 54 rolls all in one go no video edits and I want to see NO DUPLICATIONS

    That's not what OP means. Means that there should be code within the RNG that prevents you getting dupes at all, probably.

    Would make it a pretty bad rng.

    can it really get any worse?

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