Let's talk about matchmaking

Magog

Would like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. But first of all, a screenshot:



I'd like to direct your attention to the top of the screen. I only noticed this when I was in the match, but my level 1 Ob Nix got matched with a level 60 Ob Nix. I somehow fought off two Olivias and won (seriously, the AI doesn't handle Ob Nix very well). For what it's worth, if any devs are reading this and if battle logs are saved anywhere on the server then I'd love a copy. If you need my UID then I'm happy to provide it.

But this isn't a brag thread, it's about the matchmaking, I've got mixed feelings about this. Most obviously, a level disparity like this is completely absurd. 5-10 levels difference is one thing, but a full 60 is another. And I know for a fact that a more level match-up could be achieved since I ran into at least 3 different lvl 1 PWs during this event alone. I'd love to see the software's logic that lead to this happening.

On the other hand, I am gaming the system, losing <X HP objectives are much easier in low level matches than when both PWs are maxed out. In that case then this is a perfectly good way of dissuading people from doing it. But then again, maybe it really is a good strategy and the problem is actually bad objective design that penalises people who've gone to the effort to level up their PWs.

Thoughts?

AngelForge

What tier are you in?

But before we know the answer, I would anticipate the following:
Since you won that game you probably have a decent card pool and are at least gold tier.
So, it's your decision to stay at level one to have an easier time to achieve secondary objectives.
But, of course, you give the match making tool a hard time, because how many Lvl 1 players are there?

This is no offense. I also don't use level 60 PW in PVP events, because a small fish shouldn't swim with the big sharks, if it wants to have a chance. But, of course, some quite loaded players have the same idea and even in lower levels you can meet crazy decks. But the chances are still lower than at level 60, I guess.

In short, I would say: Yes, bad design. new and moderate players shouldn't be punished to level a PW to 60.

bk1234

Magog wrote:

Would like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. But first of all, a screenshot:



I'd like to direct your attention to the top of the screen. I only noticed this when I was in the match, but my level 1 Ob Nix got matched with a level 60 Ob Nix. I somehow fought off two Olivias and won (seriously, the AI doesn't handle Ob Nix very well). For what it's worth, if any devs are reading this and if battle logs are saved anywhere on the server then I'd love a copy. If you need my UID then I'm happy to provide it.

But this isn't a brag thread, it's about the matchmaking, I've got mixed feelings about this. Most obviously, a level disparity like this is completely absurd. 5-10 levels difference is one thing, but a full 60 is another. And I know for a fact that a more level match-up could be achieved since I ran into at least 3 different lvl 1 PWs during this event alone. I'd love to see the software's logic that lead to this happening.

On the other hand, I am gaming the system, losing <X HP objectives are much easier in low level matches than when both PWs are maxed out. In that case then this is a perfectly good way of dissuading people from doing it. But then again, maybe it really is a good strategy and the problem is actually bad objective design that penalises people who've gone to the effort to level up their PWs.

Thoughts?

This has only happened to me once. In the first IF my level 7 Dovin got paired against a level 60. All of the other matches were + / - 5

zolesz

I guess your opponent started the event with a level 1 Ob Nixilis, and that's what matters => his PW was initially put into the same pool as your level 1 Ob.
After the start he leveled up his pw, but is still facing lower level opponents from the original pool. Something that I think is common, but actually shouldn't be allowed.

Sorin81

zolesz wrote:

I guess your opponent started the event with a level 1 Ob Nixilis, and that's what matters => his PW was initially put into the same pool as your level 1 Ob.
After the start he leveled up his pw, but is still facing lower level opponents from the original pool. Something that I think is common, but actually shouldn't be allowed.

Huh? I learned something today. I didn't know that was possible. I just assumed a "suitable opponent" was found at the beginning of each match.

wink

bken1234 wrote:

Magog wrote:

Would like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. But first of all, a screenshot:



I'd like to direct your attention to the top of the screen. I only noticed this when I was in the match, but my level 1 Ob Nix got matched with a level 60 Ob Nix. I somehow fought off two Olivias and won (seriously, the AI doesn't handle Ob Nix very well). For what it's worth, if any devs are reading this and if battle logs are saved anywhere on the server then I'd love a copy. If you need my UID then I'm happy to provide it.

But this isn't a brag thread, it's about the matchmaking, I've got mixed feelings about this. Most obviously, a level disparity like this is completely absurd. 5-10 levels difference is one thing, but a full 60 is another. And I know for a fact that a more level match-up could be achieved since I ran into at least 3 different lvl 1 PWs during this event alone. I'd love to see the software's logic that lead to this happening.

On the other hand, I am gaming the system, losing <X HP objectives are much easier in low level matches than when both PWs are maxed out. In that case then this is a perfectly good way of dissuading people from doing it. But then again, maybe it really is a good strategy and the problem is actually bad objective design that penalises people who've gone to the effort to level up their PWs.

Thoughts?

This has only happened to me once. In the first IF my level 7 Dovin got paired against a level 60. All of the other matches were + / - 5

Lol! That's hilarious because at the end of that same event, my level 6 Dovin was pitted against your level 60!

mouser

IMO once you're in Gold/Platinum tier the MMR shouldn't be attempting to match underleveled PW's against similar leveled opponent PW's for events. Remove much of the incentive to deliberately leave PW's underleveled.

Matching up similar levels makes sense in QB though since rewards are proportional to level.

Magog

AngelForge wrote:

What tier are you in?

But before we know the answer, I would anticipate the following:
Since you won that game you probably have a decent card pool and are at least gold tier.
So, it's your decision to stay at level one to have an easier time to achieve secondary objectives.
But, of course, you give the match making tool a hard time, because how many Lvl 1 players are there?

This is no offense. I also don't use level 60 PW in PVP events, because a small fish shouldn't swim with the big sharks, if it wants to have a chance. But, of course, some quite loaded players have the same idea and even in lower levels you can meet crazy decks. But the chances are still lower than at level 60, I guess.

In short, I would say: Yes, bad design. new and moderate players shouldn't be punished to level a PW to 60.

No offence taken, I can see why some people consider it a questionable strategy.

I'm effectively gold but actually a mix of silver and gold since I only progress as I use good cards (vs trying to achieve mastery for the sake of moving up tiers). Up until last night I was still silver in red and green, but mastering a couple of colourless cards moved me into gold for red.

For what it's worth, my cards for this match might not be as impressive as expected:

Heir of Falkenrath (U) (got this one out twice)
Electrostatic Pummeler (R)
Noosegraf Mob (R) (got it out once)
Weldfast Monitor (C) (got it out twice)
Ambitious Aetherborn (C)

To the Slaughter (R) (got it twice, killed Olivia twice)
Grotesque Mutation (U)

Mirrorpool (M) (I think I only managed to play this on the second last turn or something, so the effect was minimal)
Decoction Module (U)
Deadlock Trap (R) (Wasn't keeping track but I don't think this triggered more than a couple of times due to a lack of enemy creatures)

Basic theme is to pump out cheap creatures ASAP, the KLD cards were only in there to give me the ability to energise gems. I don't think I even used ESP. Game winners were TtS and me being lucky enough to meet an opponent with barely any creatures (presumably using Ob's 3rd ability as the win mechanic).

As for giving the matchmaking tool a hard time, I would have to disagree with you on that. I'd already run into a number of level 1-20 PWs out there, and as we know the AI has no problems with repeatedly pairing you up with the same opponent. Zolesz' and Wink's observation is an interesting one though.

killwind

I see a lot of level 1 decks in my matches.

AngelForge

So, maybe there is a hidden parameter in the matchmaking that takes other things into account than pure level?
I could imagine that a Ob Nixilis deck that's strategy is to go for the 3rd ability has a hard time to win when played by the AI. So, maybe if that always looses it is considered a less and less level?
But, yeah pure speculation that I have also only noticed when playing low level PW (which I really can't anymore at the moment )

Did anyone of you ever face a high level PW that totally crushed you?

Magog

It's possible that there's something that takes the AI win/loss ratio into account. But if so then I'd be surprised that something with Olivia performed so badly in the long run.

Don't know how high level we're talking about, but there was a level 30-something that my Ob Nix went up against a few events ago. That one managed to get out a Piggie. Last event I used Ob I lost to a level 21 PW as well. Gem cascade and then I just got outdone in damage done.

AngelForge

Yeah, I'm also astounded what kind of decks run around at Lvl 20 to 30.

Okay, for the matchmaking: I just don't get, why nobody from D3go.com just tells the community here how matchmaking is done... Why make a secret out of it?
The only reason I could think of is, that it is so simple that they're afraid to tell!

Nitymp

AngelForge wrote:

Why make a secret out of it?

Because they love having secrets. Transparent communication is something they are terrible at.