Let's Simplify Tile Terminology

Astralgazer

The terminology used in referring to tiles is indeed confusing. I propose here a simplification that might be clearer to all player base, both veterans and newbies.

1. Let's divide tiles into just TWO categories: basic and special. Basic tiles are those that feed into powers that can be fired by characters in a match. TU is counted as a power, so white tiles should be clumped here. In other words, these are the "naked" tiles. Specials are tiles that is produced when a character fires a power. These are the "adorned" tiles. I propose the third category here, the Super Special tiles, to refer to those tiles that have all kind of special interaction with moves and powers. Their special rules trump other rules of gameplay.

2. Basic tiles are divided further into colored basic tiles that feed the three characters in play, and TU tiles that feed the TU power. So, powers that affect "basic tiles" can target any naked tiles; those that target specifically "colored basic" tiles affect all basic tiles but the TU. Powers can also specifically target TU tiles.

3. Special tiles are further divided by its effect that can be enumerated when describing effects: strike, protect, attack, locked, CD, etc. Thus, the devs should not refer just to "special tiles" but to specific effect that is produced by particular tiles.

4. There are two special cases. First, the Super Special tiles, which have their own respective rules. If the devs decide that they belong to a third category, we can strike this out from "special cases". Second, when a power can target all tiles BUT the TUs, such as Loki's Illusion, it may simply refer to "colored tiles"; which the description of Illusion already does.

What do you guys/gals think?

Tarouza

I have just been given an official dev response on your statement

Ducky

Or you could just look over their explanations of tile types here.

turul

DuckyV wrote:

Or you could just look over their explanations of tile types here.

It says crit tiles work with colored tiles so not teamups. Should i file a bug?

maltyo9

I don't think you know what "simplify" means...

Astralgazer

DuckyV wrote:

Or you could just look over their explanations of tile types here.

:

I have one word for their explanation: convoluted.

Astralgazer

maltyo9 wrote:

I don't think you know what "simplify" means...

There are only TWO types in my scheme: tiles that feed powers, and tiles produced by powers. But ofc there must be a special third: tiles that play only by their own rules.

Now please do kindly enlighten this simpleton on simplification.

Suddenreal

For the moment we have basic tiles, which are normal coloured tiles. Then there are TU's, crit tiles and special tiles (basic tiles that are altered in some way). Nothing confusing about it. Well, maybe the two or three characters that create an unmovable tile.

Astralgazer wrote:

The terminology used in referring to tiles is indeed confusing. I propose here a simplification that might be clearer to all player base, both veterans and newbies.

1. Let's divide tiles into just TWO categories: basic and special. Basic tiles are those that feed into powers that can be fired by characters in a match. TU is counted as a power, so white tiles should be clumped here. In other words, these are the "naked" tiles. Specials are tiles that is produced when a character fires a power. These are the "adorned" tiles. I propose the third category here, the Super Special tiles, to refer to those tiles that have all kind of special interaction with moves and powers. Their special rules trump other rules of gameplay.

But special tiles also feed into powers, which means they are Basic tiles? Also, powers can produce basic tiles, so are those special tiles under your rules or is that (another) exception? And those Super Duper Special tiles, are those the (normal) Countdown tiles of Starlord that alter the cost of powers (because those are the only ones, by my knowledge, that alter powers) or do you include the tiles of Black Bolt and Silver Surfer? So basically, Falcon's power would read "Redwing targets Protect, Attack, Strike, Countdown and Super Duper Special tiles (except the unmovable tiles)". Yeah, pretty clear.

2. Basic tiles are divided further into colored basic tiles that feed the three characters in play, and TU tiles that feed the TU power. So, powers that affect "basic tiles" can target any naked tiles; those that target specifically "colored basic" tiles affect all basic tiles but the TU. Powers can also specifically target TU tiles.

But there isn't a power that targets only basic tiles and TU's, it's one or the other.

3. Special tiles are further divided by its effect that can be enumerated when describing effects: strike, protect, attack, locked, CD, etc. Thus, the devs should not refer just to "special tiles" but to specific effect that is produced by particular tiles.

Powers already do that. Again, Falcon only targets Protect or Strike tiles at rank 1. He gets Attack tiles at rank 2 and Countdown tiles at rank 4. Same with Moonstone or Loki.

4. There are two special cases. First, the Super Special tiles, which have their own respective rules. If the devs decide that they belong to a third category, we can strike this out from "special cases". Second, when a power can target all tiles BUT the TUs, such as Loki's Illusion, it may simply refer to "colored tiles"; which the description of Illusion already does.

What do you guys/gals think?

But the Super Duper Special tiles (if you mean the Countdown tiles of Starlord, judging from your previous explanation) are already covered by Countdown tiles. If you do make them a specific category, that would be a nerf for Starlord since one of his powers interacts with the number of Countdown tiles (and these wouldn't be included anymore). And in the case of Loki, if it's already included in the description, it's not longer a special case.

So basically, instead of four categories (Basic, Special, TU's and Crit) with only a few exceptions (clearly stated in the description of relevant power), you want six categories (Basic, Coloured Basic, TU's, Special, Super Duper Special and Crit) with again, a few exceptions.

So, how is this simplified?

Astralgazer

Then let me rephrase. Basic tiles are those with unmodified properties. Whose values are listed in character screens. Special tiles are tiles modified in some way by powers.

Under this condition, Colored basic, TU and Crits are "basic". All others are Specials.

Edit: On second thought, Crits should be special because they modify value of all other basic tiles.

Polares

There is one exception to these rules (which is also wrong in Devs description) and it is Trap tiles!

Trap tiles are a bit weird, because abilities that affect colored might affect them! That's because they are supposed to be hidden (If a destroy all red tiles, doesnt destroy a tile that you see as basic, then this one obviously has a trap, so it loses its 'power')

Suddenreal

Astralgazer wrote:

Then let me rephrase. Basic tiles are those with unmodified properties. Whose values are listed in character screens. Special tiles are tiles modified in some way by powers.

Under this condition, Colored basic, TU and Crits are "basic". All others are Specials.

Edit: On second thought, Crits should be special because they modify value of all other basic tiles.

The problem with your "simplification" is the multiple exceptions, which will confuse new players.

If Crits are listed as Special Tiles, why can't they be targeted? Same goes for Charged Tiles and non-Special Fortified Tiles.
If Basic Tiles are both Basic Coloured Tiles and TU's, why are powers either targeting Basic Coloured Tiles or TU's, but never both, making the group obsolete?
And what of Trap tiles? They are tiles created by powers, so they should be Special Tiles, yet they act as Basic Tiles when it comes to powers affecting Basic tiles?

And how exactly is the explanation of the tiles on the D3 site convoluted? It explains everything in simple terms. Yes, it has more categories, but remember to KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Astralgazer

Suddenreal wrote:

Astralgazer wrote:

Then let me rephrase. Basic tiles are those with unmodified properties. Whose values are listed in character screens. Special tiles are tiles modified in some way by powers.

Under this condition, Colored basic, TU and Crits are "basic". All others are Specials.

Edit: On second thought, Crits should be special because they modify value of all other basic tiles.

The problem with your "simplification" is the multiple exceptions, which will confuse new players.

If Crits are listed as Special Tiles, why can't they be targeted? Same goes for Charged Tiles and non-Special Fortified Tiles.
If Basic Tiles are both Basic Coloured Tiles and TU's, why are powers either targeting Basic Coloured Tiles or TU's, but never both, making the group obsolete?
And what of Trap tiles? They are tiles created by powers, so they should be Special Tiles, yet they act as Basic Tiles when it comes to powers affecting Basic tiles?

And how exactly is the explanation of the tiles on the D3 site convoluted? It explains everything in simple terms. Yes, it has more categories, but remember to KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

No. It's really simple. Specials work by their own rules. Crits' rules say that it triples the value of basic tiles. There is no power, IIRC, that targets Crits. That's fine. Traps are the other kind of specials that also cannot be targeted. Traps do act as basic tiles, but it has been modified so that when they are destroyed/matched, they trigger certain effects.

About inconsistency in which powers target "basic" tiles, that is what I aim by simplifying the terminology. Under my scheme, "basic tiles' will refer to all tiles that have not been modified in any way.

Kolence

Suddenreal wrote:

<snip>

2. Basic tiles are divided further into colored basic tiles that feed the three characters in play, and TU tiles that feed the TU power. So, powers that affect "basic tiles" can target any naked tiles; those that target specifically "colored basic" tiles affect all basic tiles but the TU. Powers can also specifically target TU tiles.

But there isn't a power that targets only basic tiles and TU's, it's one or the other.
<snip>

And how do you explain this, then?

Suddenreal

Astralgazer wrote:

No. It's really simple. Specials work by their own rules. Crits' rules say that it triples the value of basic tiles. There is no power, IIRC, that targets Crits. That's fine. Traps are the other kind of specials that also cannot be targeted. Traps do act as basic tiles, but it has been modified so that when they are destroyed/matched, they trigger certain effects.

About inconsistency in which powers target "basic" tiles, that is what I aim by simplifying the terminology. Under my scheme, "basic tiles' will refer to all tiles that have not been modified in any way.

But trap tiles CAN be targeted. Sure, it will happen by chance (unless you're really observant and can figure out where it may be) but you can destroy a trap tile with Cap's red or blue on rank 1 that targets only basic tiles.

Look, I see what you're trying to do, but you're the one that makes it convoluted. Just keep Special Tiles modified tiles that are visibly owned by a player and the rest their own thing. Otherwise you'll just be forced to put unnecessary exceptions in descriptions of powers that will just make it too long.

Kolence wrote:

And how do you explain this, then?

Thor's power says that nine green tiles are added to the board. It does not say Basic tiles and/or TU's in it's description.

Punisher5784

Suddenreal wrote:

If Basic Tiles are both Basic Coloured Tiles and TU's, why are powers either targeting Basic Coloured Tiles or TU's, but never both, making the group obsolete?

Actually Bullseye's green specifically says "Destroy Basic or T/U tiles". Maybe that's why his green is so ridiculously expensive for what it does.

MojoWild

No, this is just bad and even more confusing.
Even in the first bullet that declares two categories, a third is introduced.
The system as is, isn't tally that confusing. This would just make a mess.

acescracked

I didn't finish reading the simplified terminology because it is a bit convoluted. But...

Are charged tiles mentioned or addressed?

Trilateralus

This is not simple or helpful.

Chrono_Tata

The way I look at it, if you must divide tiles into categories here are how I look at it.

1) Normal tiles
Tiles that get created through normal matching gameplay without powers, so basic (coloured), TU and crits

2) Owned special tiles
Tiles with effects that specify a team or certain character including strike, attack, protect, invisibility, trap, CD, Agamotto, etc., etc.

3) Neutral special tiles
Charged and web tiles

4) Effects
Not type of tiles but effects applied on tiles including locked and fortified

That's about it

I disagree with the devs saying charged is a tile effect, because charging a tile replaces the special tile with the charged tile (such as using Thoria's yellow), unlike fortify or locking which preserves the special tile type. So charged is its own type of special tile.

Also I don't really consider "character tiles" a thing since technically there is nothing limiting any type of tiles to one character. For example web tiles can be made by several characters. If you accept that character tiles is a category then all special tiles are character tiles since only certain characters can make them.