First Strike Overriding Double Strike?

aenigmaeffect

I was just playing Nodes of Power, going for the Red 5 turn kill.

On my 5th turn, I had the following:
Embermaw Hellion (5/8 berserk trample, and +3/+0 to all red creatures when attacking) from previously. I was able to cast the following on my EH:
Uncaged Fury (+1/+1 and double strike to a creature),
Built to Smash (+2/+2 and trample to a creature),
Sure Strike (+3/+0 and first strike to a creature)

This resulted in my Embermaw Hellion (EH) to become 11/8.

I also casted a Reckless Bushwacker 4/3 (on enter battle field, haste and +1/+0 to all creatures).

This resulted my Bushwacker (RB) to be 5/3, and EH 12/8

As I got an extra match at this time, I then used Koth's 2nd ability, granting +4/+0, berserk, and trample to all my creatures:

Now: EH: 16/8, RB 9/3.

On attack, my creatures, due to EH's +3/+0, became:
EH 19/8 (double strike, berserk, trample), RB became 12/3, berserk, trample.

My opponent was at 28 life exactly. He had a 5/5 creature out.

Somehow, after I attacked, the opponent was left with 2 life (costing me the 5 round victory, thus, a top 5 spot).

I'm flabbergasted, and don't understand at all how this happened. I'm still trying to figure out how my creatures only did 26 damage.

I would've thought double strike should first hit as first strike, creature life check, then regular strike, both with trample, which would've resulted in:
19-5 = 14 initial damage from the first part of my double strike. Then another 19 damage from the second part of double strike (which should've killed my opponent already), and then another potential 12 damage, from my RB for a total of 45 damage.

I'm wracking my brain in trying to figure out what happened in the code/order of operation that didn't account for all the damage, and I think I found the bug:
I gave Embermaw Double Strike first, then First Strike second, which OVERRODE the Double Strike.
The math works out:
19 - 5 = 14, + 12 = 26.

This should NOT happen. Double Strike should supersede a First Strike, always, no???

(I think I also recall seeing only a first strike animation, and no double strike).

Anyone else having this problem?

ogden71

Double strike is first strike plus the regular strike. In your scenario, the creature with double strike and the creature with first strike will do damage at the same time and the regular strike does not land because one combatant dies.

hawkyh1

I'm guessing the embermaw hellion was your 1st creature.
it did 5 damage to your opponents creature and then
trample 14 damage to your opponent. (the double strike
trample did not allow your eb to deal the 2nd strike if
your opponents creature dies on the 1st strike) then
your bushwacker dealt it's 12 damage. it's a known
problem that double strike trample does not deal it's
full potential damage if your opponents creature dies on
the 1st strike.

HH

aenigmaeffect

it's a known
problem that double strike trample does not deal it's
full potential damage if your opponents creature dies on
the 1st strike.

Thanks, HH. Good to know that it's (unfortunately) a known problem (that's still not fixed).

(Costed me my perfect score for Nodes...)

julianus

I have seen the same issue, if I understand your post correctly. In my experience, if a double striking creature attacks another creature and kills them with the first strike, they don't take the second strike and therefore don't do any additional damage to the opponent. So, I don't think the double-strike is being overridden, it's just not happening.

I always assumed this was by design, but that's just a guess.

Eligius

This corresponds to paper MTG though. If a creature with double strike is blocked, it counts as blocked and won't deal damage to your opponent (except for trample damage that is) even if the blocking creature dies on the first strike. So I think this mechanic works as designed.

hawkyh1

the question people debate on is should the 2nd strike
trample over the now dead blocker?

HH

Delnai

Eligius wrote:

This corresponds to paper MTG though. If a creature with double strike is blocked, it counts as blocked and won't deal damage to your opponent (except for trample damage that is) even if the blocking creature dies on the first strike. So I think this mechanic works as designed.

The creature in question in this post has trample.

It's annoying that it's not clear whether this is a bug or working as intended. I wish we could hear from the devs to clarify this.

wereotter

Eligius wrote:

This corresponds to paper MTG though. If a creature with double strike is blocked, it counts as blocked and won't deal damage to your opponent (except for trample damage that is) even if the blocking creature dies on the first strike. So I think this mechanic works as designed.

This is incorrect. Look up the rules, if a creature with double strike and trample deals lethal damage in the first strike phase, the full amount of regular combat damage will trample through to the defending player in the standard combat damage resolution.

Probably this was too difficult for them to code which is why it remains broken.