[Poll] Has PvP matchmaking become worse this season?

babinro

These last few pvp's seem to be even more restrictive in terms of options. I'm concerned there was a matchmaking change done in one of these recent patches that actually made the pvp experience even less enjoyable.

Seems like every event these days I'm stuck beyond a batch of friendlies that I cannot hit followed by 3 or so people I can. As a result I'm hitting the same targets repeatedly (3+ times MINIMUM) just to climb up to 1200.

The experience I just described was COMMONPLACE in January 2016 but over time more and more people entered 5* tier play and things slowly opened up. For months I was able to climb in pvp with only hitting a person twice on average and many people just once.

Now I realize the fact that I'm part of a large truce is part of this problem but it still seems needlessly restrictive to limit me to just 5 to 8 targets before they cycle endlessly. It's not like I'm leading the boards either, these are choices given to me at 300 points, 500, points, and 800 points. Even around 1100 when things should open up they don't necessarily give more options despite the fact that you KNOW plenty of people are out there unshielded.

It would be great to know if MMR was deliberately changed recently....and if so, why?

fmftint

"Friendlies" is a player created concept not a developer created one. They don't care that you are in a BC with who the game queues for you

JamesV

My matchmaking has become pretty... not good these past few seasons, as it feels like I have fallen in sort of a MMR gap.

Previously I was being matched with people at my level for decent point values. Now on average, I see maybe 3-5 people in a PVP worth more than 45 points, with most of my matches between in the 35 point range (I average about 20+ fights to get to 900 points). The thing with this is my opponents are all over the place. Several times in every PVP get matched with players who have a 2* in their team (so say the required 3* champed, champed 2* and a 2 cover 5*). This means a lot of my fights are easy to win, but tedious since I have to do so many of them now. And on the flip side, I know I'm being matched against people with my roster or better based on my retal nodes. This also occurs regardless of what slice I pick.

My wild speculation is that I need to start dumping ISO into my 5 stars because I'm triggering some accidental soft capping MMR dead zone.

Roster for context:
All 5*s rostered most at 1-2 covers, a couple between 4 and 7, none leveled yet
18 champed 4*, 7 cover maxed that I'm leveling as champ covers are coming up, and all the remaining in various cover states
All 3* champed, All 2* champed or being farmed

Polares

I dont see a big difference in the lasts PvPs. But it is true 5 MMR is really small (but this is not new), in all events we are more or less all the same people with 5s hitting each other all the time. It is really annoying hitting the same people over and over and being hit by the same people over and over. I really really hate when I have to hit someone twice while climbing, but sometimes is very hard to find valid targets (and 480+ enemies are not valid targets for me )

Truces between alliances makes things even worse in my opinion. Hitting someone three times, because he is the only one not in the truce, can really screw things up for that person (not everybody has the resources and time to recover from 3 hits from the same person and probably from others too), so reducing artificially the number of people you can hit makes things even worse. In the end the game doesn't know anything about truces, so it will randomly present what it considers valid targets.

Phumade

It does say something significant when a 5* player only sees friendly targets.

It means that an HIGH percentage of high level players are PURPOSEFULLY banded in out of game coordination groups. I'm sure if you compared the 3* population, they would say that they see only unhittable targets vs friendly targets that are supposed to be skipped.

In terms of the health of tier, you would ideally want to see 3 random 5* targets to ever 1 friendly 5* target that must be skipped. I think population growth science would have a lot of insight on how the 5* population is growing.

El Satanno

fmftint wrote:

"Friendlies" is a player created concept not a developer created one. They don't care that you are in a BC with who the game queues for you

Yes, but right here he makes the point that carries weight, my emphasis:

babinro wrote:

Now I realize the fact that I'm part of a large truce is part of this problem but it still seems needlessly restrictive to limit me to just 5 to 8 targets before they cycle endlessly. It's not like I'm leading the boards either, these are choices given to me at 300 points, 500, points, and 800 points. Even around 1100 when things should open up they don't necessarily give more options despite the fact that you KNOW plenty of people are out there unshielded.

It would be great to know if MMR was deliberately changed recently....and if so, why?

And I can agree with that. Setting aside the members of the various truce agreements I belong to, I too have been in many situations where I am getting less than 10 unique targets. Sometimes as few as 5; two sitting in nodes and the other three cycling in the last one. It's maddening.

fight4thedream

El Satanno wrote:

fmftint wrote:

"Friendlies" is a player created concept not a developer created one. They don't care that you are in a BC with who the game queues for you

Yes, but right here he makes the point that carries weight, my emphasis:

babinro wrote:

Now I realize the fact that I'm part of a large truce is part of this problem but it still seems needlessly restrictive to limit me to just 5 to 8 targets before they cycle endlessly. It's not like I'm leading the boards either, these are choices given to me at 300 points, 500, points, and 800 points. Even around 1100 when things should open up they don't necessarily give more options despite the fact that you KNOW plenty of people are out there unshielded.

It would be great to know if MMR was deliberately changed recently....and if so, why?

And I can agree with that. Setting aside the members of the various truce agreements I belong to, I too have been in many situations where I am getting less than 10 unique targets. Sometimes as few as 5; two sitting in nodes and the other three cycling in the last one. It's maddening.

Except that fmftint's point still stands. While I can agree that matchmaking is less than perfect, in this particular situation what seems "needlessly restrictive" is more on the end of those who voluntarily choose to be in truces than on the actual matchmaking system. Obviously there are advantages to being in "truces" but should there not also be disadvantages? Because what the OP sounds like to me is a person who wants to have their cake and eat it too.

There are various ways the OP can avoid this issue, all that come with their own advantages and disadvantages:

1. Switch to a different slice with less friendlies. (disadvantages: might not work well with the player's schedule, potentially less points in slice)
2. Change your climbing habits. If you are a late climber, climb earlier. (disadvantages: schedule conflict, may require use of more HP for shields)
3. Renegotiate the terms of your alliance truce. Only check alliances you feel benefit your alliance. (disadvantages: peer pressure from other members of the truce system)
4. Find an alliance that fits your play style/schedule better. For example, a no-truce alliance (disadvantage: breaking social ties with current alliance and friendlies)
5. Just hit whoever you want, how many times you want. Throw up a shield (or not) and call it a day.

PvP comes with various frustrations. It's part of the fun. But me thinks the frustrations the OP is encountering has more to do with their own play-style choices than the actual matchmaking system.

rbdragon

Having friendlies is self-restrictive...this is true of course.

It doesn't change the fact that the matchmaking algorithms are clearly broken. Everyone that is in your "MMR" who is unshielded should be available. Given how many people are in a slice, it is highly unlikely that this is ever only 5 players, yet it is commonplace to have to cycle through the same 5 people time and time again.

Another thing I will notice is there are certain players I am always able to find in my queue if/when unshielded no matter what score I have or they have. I am able to queue someone with 1400+ points when I just start, yet others who have similar rosters as myself I can't queue even if we're separated by 100 points? That makes no sense at all!

This is a broken system - plain and simple.

JamieMadrox

It's more likely that your MMR has changed due to any number of factors. Or that the dynamic of the slice that you play in changed for whatever reason causing there to be fewer viable targets when you were climbing. Or other players' MMR could have changed making them more/less likely to be seen by you.

Bowgentle

Jamie Madrox wrote:

It's more likely that your MMR has changed due to any number of factors. Or that the dynamic of the slice that you play in changed for whatever reason causing there to be fewer viable targets when you were climbing. Or other players' MMR could have changed making them more/less likely to be seen by you.

Or it could be... MAGIC.

Yeah, it's everyone's guess why MMR is the way it is, and the only people who could tell you if something changed are the devs - and we all know how gladly they share info.

I'm used to seeing the same 8 people from 0-850+, after that I see hoppers.
Before that it's the usual S1 5* floaters clogging my nodes, including a certain Mr. Madrox from time to time.

mpqr7

In general, my climbs are very hard from 200 to 700 points (max 5*/boosted 4*, only 45 or less points per climb), and then from 700 to 1000 points, it gets much, much easier (teams with only boosted 4*s, ie no 5*s; sometimes even teams with a 3*).

And then after 1000 points, it gets basically impossible (double-champed 5*s), unless I happen to find a grill, and even then, I'll most likely get "sniped" like crazy on my 3-minute hop. [I know it's not a true snipe.. ie no one's aiming for me personally (I'm the only one with points and a non-double champed 5* roster who shows up), but it still feels like this, and negative hops are no fun].


Different PVPs are better and worse. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to get to 1200+, and sometimes I just give up at around 800. I've lost interest in pushing for max prog every time.. sometimes it's just not in the cards, and trying to get there is too much work for not enough reward.

El Satanno

fight4thedream wrote:

El Satanno wrote:

And I can agree with that. Setting aside the members of the various truce agreements I belong to, I too have been in many situations where I am getting less than 10 unique targets. Sometimes as few as 5; two sitting in nodes and the other three cycling in the last one. It's maddening.

Except that fmftint's point still stands. While I can agree that matchmaking is less than perfect, in this particular situation what seems "needlessly restrictive" is more on the end of those who voluntarily choose to be in truces than on the actual matchmaking system.
*snip*

Mmmokay, except the part where I said I'm getting less than 10 unique targets? That's the complaint I'm reading here. Say I take all of your advice. That still doesn't solve the problem. I'm still stuck fighting the same people over and over again. To make matters worse, sooner or later (and honestly, it's usually sooner) I'm going to really not want hit those targets again because they'll be worth less than 37. I don't know if you've ever been somewhere around 1000 points in that situation but it really, really, really sucks.

Fightmastermpq

fmftint wrote:

"Friendlies" is a player created concept not a developer created one. They don't care that you are in a BC with who the game queues for you

And what about in my case where I can regularly ONLY queue targets from my own alliance? That's broken. Obviously you can't be friendly with everyone, then you can't hit anyway, but IMO MMR should always give you a minimum of 20 unique names to cycle through - so you are guaranteed 1 that isn't in your alliance. Surely forcing players to attack within their alliance was never intended gameplay.

Fightmastermpq

El Satanno wrote:

fight4thedream wrote:

El Satanno wrote:

And I can agree with that. Setting aside the members of the various truce agreements I belong to, I too have been in many situations where I am getting less than 10 unique targets. Sometimes as few as 5; two sitting in nodes and the other three cycling in the last one. It's maddening.

Except that fmftint's point still stands. While I can agree that matchmaking is less than perfect, in this particular situation what seems "needlessly restrictive" is more on the end of those who voluntarily choose to be in truces than on the actual matchmaking system.
*snip*

Mmmokay, except the part where I said I'm getting less than 10 unique targets? That's the complaint I'm reading here. Say I take all of your advice. That still doesn't solve the problem. I'm still stuck fighting the same people over and over again. To make matters worse, sooner or later (and honestly, it's usually sooner) I'm going to really not want hit those targets again because they'll be worth less than 37. I don't know if you've ever been somewhere around 1000 points in that situation but it really, really, really sucks.

I made this complaint just a few weeks ago too. Only having targets that are either friendly, or not worth enough points to justify a hit is very poor MMR design - especially when I can check the leaderboard and see high value teams that aren't friendly and aren't shielded.