Bristling hydra, first thoughts after playing

andrewvanmarle

I loved the concept of the hydra so much I bought it the moment I saw it was on sale.

Now playing with it my enthusiasm is a bit tempered. I used Ulvenwald hydra as comparison, even played them along side each other, and found the bristling hydra severly lacking.

I had in mind that this would be the big energy generator for kiora, nissa1, arlinn and garruck, but it just lay dead on the table.

After a few more game I came to the conclusion that the energy generation of this creature is sorely lacking so it a.) won't'fill the board if you are unlucky b.) barely grows if it does so at all.

Compared to Ulvenwald Hydra, who turns three gems to green each turn, grows by +2 which it can trigger without having played your match and triggers on the green matches of the opponent (and has reach, which is a liability at first but a bonus after a turn or two)


I kind like the penalty that UH imposes on making green swaps for the opponent, i think that would work for BH too. and it'd'be nice if it generated a slight amount more energy.


I'd'imagine the card could look like:

When this creature enters the battlefield,Energize 4. if either player Overloads 1: This creature gets +1/+1 and Energize 3.

The rate of growth is kept the same,too keep it in check since it\s not as vulnurable at a low size, but it does have a change to trigger once or twice per round and will generate a greater amount of energy....

Mainloop25

You couldn't resist owning another Hydra, could ya?

Your assessment is pretty much what I expected its performance to be, but I hope that it does better with Nissa2.

andrewvanmarle

@mainloop, even though I did pull UH this month I couldnt resist another hydra. I may make a hydra only deck lol.

Bristling hydra doesnt have to be as powerfull as ulvenwald hydra (who ramps other cards) but it does need a touch now.

Steeme

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

buscemi

Steeme wrote:

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

Clearly you haven't faced my Ninth Bridge Patrol deck yet.

andrewvanmarle

Steeme wrote:

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

faster growth may be needed, but I thought it more interesting to focus on the energising potential. If the +1 growth doesnt suffice after the energy generation is increased, then by all means lets increase the +1 to +2...

AettThorn

andrewvanmarle wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

faster growth may be needed, but I thought it more interesting to focus on the energising potential. If the +1 growth doesnt suffice after the energy generation is increased, then by all means lets increase the +1 to +2...

So do we buy it now, and hope it gets buffed? Or let it pass because maybe it won't be? Decisions, decisions.

Astralwind

On average, it would be about 2 gem cascades per swap.
And the chances of matching energized gems would be kinda low unless you have lots covered.
So I think Bristling hydra would be decent if you already have plenty of energized gems lying around.
The overload 1 to give energize 2 serves to maintain the number of energized gems and not to grow them.
If you want a card that can grow energize gems, Bristling hydra is not the card for it.
It's 12 mana cost for energize 3. Multiform wonder is also energize 3 for the same cost but is 6/6 instead.
I think Electrostatic pummeler is still one of the better energizing summons for a low cost of 7.

SeditiousCanary

buscemi wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

Clearly you haven't faced my Ninth Bridge Patrol deck yet.

Why did you build a deck where your creatures die at such a rate that Ninth Bridge Patrol is even a consideration as a win condition?

James13

I do think that it either needs a higher starting power/toughness, or the overload 1 has to change to a +2/+2. +3/+3 may or may not be too powerful depending on what you think the relative power of paid cards should be.

With the view into the upcoming AR cards it did lose a LOT of appeal immediately.

cwashley

I agree - not having Ulvenwald Hydra, I thought this would be a nice alternative. I put it in Nissa 2 deck focused primarily on energizing gems and have yet to get it above 12/12. Even when the board is full of energized gems it rarely gets more than +1/+1 a turn, despite cascades, as new gems which cascade in are not energized and even if you match 10 energized gems at once, it only triggers the effect once.

James13

cwashley wrote:

I agree - not having Ulvenwald Hydra, I thought this would be a nice alternative. I put it in Nissa 2 deck focused primarily on energizing gems and have yet to get it above 12/12. Even when the board is full of energized gems it rarely gets more than +1/+1 a turn, despite cascades, as new gems which cascade in are not energized and even if you match 10 energized gems at once, it only triggers the effect once.

That actually suggests or brings to mind a great fix I didn't think of.

Give it Overloads 1, 2, and 3 like multiform wonder.
overload 1 - +1/+1 energize 2
overload 2 - +2/+2 energize 2(?)
overload 3 - +3/+3 energize 3

Mainloop25

SeditiousCanary wrote:

buscemi wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Anything that starts at 1/1 and grows by +1/+1 is garbage. How many rounds do you think it will last before your opponent casts Frog, Moon, Grip, Inner Struggle, and so on?

Clearly you haven't faced my Ninth Bridge Patrol deck yet.

Why did you build a deck where your creatures die at such a rate that Ninth Bridge Patrol is even a consideration as a win condition?

Clearly you don't know this man. Lol

wereotter

I've played it in Nissa 2.... it's not a bad card, but I'm starting to think that it's a less powerful version of Longtusk Cub. That one still gets the +1/+1 when you overload once and gives you one energy when it hits your opponent but doesn't energize when it enters as a 6/6. Bristling Hydra, conversely enters as only a 1/1 meaning you have to overload 5 times before it matches the starting power of Longtusk Cub, and assuming one overload per turn, you're still only netting 1 more energy on the board per turn, which is identical assuming your opponent doesn't have anything with reach or defender. The paper card starts as a 4/3, so I think really the best way to fix this card is a simple buff to its starting stats to make it comparatively as good as a card with lower rarity. Even just having it start as a 4/3 like it's paper card would be enough to make it feel as good of a card.

Astralwind

This designer probably feels that overload 1 is easy to achieve and this hydra will become humongous overtime.
But sadly, it doesn't turn out this way. Did they test it in play? Did it feel like a proper mythic card?
I think sometimes, the developer/designer need to question himself/herself, what makes a mythic card?

Bristling hydra requires a lot of small explosive cascades to achieve huge growth. But in a green deck that uses cards like fertile overgrowth, natural connection, attune with aether, animist awakening, seasons past or even nissa's renewal, the cascades usually trigger overload 2 or 3 and removes many energized gems in one go. If this creature starts off with a 6/6, I might consider it. Remember Aetherstorm Roc? That card is 14 for 8/8 and has flying. Overload 1 gives it +1/+1 and disable first opponent creature until end of turn.
If we compare it to Bristling Hydra, the overload 1 seems is similar except that the hydra can recover overloaded gems by 1. While the potential to trigger multiple overload 1 is there, it's not frequent as reported by a few players who have tested it.

So my verdict, this card is not a must have. Personally, I am going to pass this card. I think Electrostatic pummeler would deserve a spot in my deck more than this card.
When we compare the multiple cascades potential, electrostatic pummeler is a lot more threatening even though it has a 'tougher' trigger condition to satisfy. If you already have ulvenwald hydra, I think you don't need this card at all.

Steeme

Astralwind wrote:

This designer probably feels that overload 1 is easy to achieve and this hydra will become humongous overtime.
But sadly, it doesn't turn out this way. Did they test it in play? Did it feel like a proper mythic card?
I think sometimes, the developer/designer need to question himself/herself, what makes a mythic card?

The issue is that, just like the entire KLD set, their testing was done with..... the entire KLD set. The problem is that, unless you have all the key cards you need, you can't run a full KLD deck without being overrun by prior optimized sets.

So all of their testing and valuation of the cards becomes skewed into utter weakness, unless you are the handful of players that has access to the right combination of cards.

Basically, all the Mythics that were offered with KLD are a pass, unless you feel like tossing your cash onto the fire.

Magog

Steeme wrote:

Astralwind wrote:

This designer probably feels that overload 1 is easy to achieve and this hydra will become humongous overtime.
But sadly, it doesn't turn out this way. Did they test it in play? Did it feel like a proper mythic card?
I think sometimes, the developer/designer need to question himself/herself, what makes a mythic card?

The issue is that, just like the entire KLD set, their testing was done with..... the entire KLD set. The problem is that, unless you have all the key cards you need, you can't run a full KLD deck without being overrun by prior optimized sets.

So all of their testing and valuation of the cards becomes skewed into utter weakness, unless you are the handful of players that has access to the right combination of cards.

Basically, all the Mythics that were offered with KLD are a pass, unless you feel like tossing your cash onto the fire.

It also extends down to the Planeswalkers and the "scissors-paper-rock" style that they're built in, which makes an anti-Energy build (C2, I'm looking at you) thoroughly useless unless you know for a fact that you're facing Dovin.

That said, I still want to try a Marionette Master + Clue destruction U/B deck...