Different flavor of 'AI cheats'

Unknown

There's no shortage of topic about how the AI cheats but this thread is about the more unusual flavors of 'crazy AI luck'. Here's some I've encountered that just makes you shake your head.

1. Every move is bad, even when they're good.

This is when you start the game and see a nice match 4 red. You see that the side tiles look kind of scary, but it's not something that immediately forms a match 5 next turn, so you take it, and then the newly dropped tiles hands the AI 2 match 5s.

Another variant would be how you see a red match 4 in the middle or a enviornmental match 4 on the rightmost column. You know that red is a better color, and that matches in middle leads to better cascade opportunity than the edges, so you take red match 4. Of course, the AI takes the enviornmental match 4 and it leads to a massive chain reaction that slaps you totally silly.

2. Self-perpetuating cascade

You got the AI cornered into just one move left where they have to match 3 environmental tile on the top, which should force a board reset for you. Instead, you see that 3 red dropped, and then 3 green, and then 3 blue, and then 3 more red. Oh, and now you're the one stuck with the only bad move left, and as soon as you make your next move the board will reset and you get slapped around some more.

3. Hard work does not pay

You've a board of rather uninteresting options, but you're sure there must be a good move in there somewhere. After studying the board carefully, you notice that you can set off a 3 chain cascade. They're not the colors you need, but you know that a 3 chain cascade has a lot of new cascade opportunity from the new tiles dropped so you take it. Of course, you don't get any new cascades, and the tiles dropped hands the AI a nice match 5 red, which would never have happened if you just take say a simple match 3 green.

Unknown

I just posted this in another thread so it's a straight copy/paste here. Sorry for any repetition of above.

I know it's all random, but I still love how often these situations arise:

- You can only ever make a match 3 while the AI seems to always get match 4s or cascades. Every turn.
- The only match you can make is for a useless colour or environment tiles, but it sets up the AI for their strongest colour or a match 4 or 5 or cascade.
- The AI has a nuke ready to use and you can only match with your weakest and least healthy character.
- You painstakingly maneuver the tiles to set up a match of an enemy CD tile or the colour you need, when the board flips.
- The AI makes a match on the top row or column and set after set of match 3s drop into the tiny void from off screen.

Now to be fair these situations really don't happen all that often, but are certainly more memorable.

Unknown

Dr Spaceman wrote:

I just posted this in another thread so it's a straight copy/paste here. Sorry for any repetition of above.


Now to be fair these situations really don't happen all that often, but are certainly more memorable.

That's because when the same thing happens to you, you don't think so much and the match is over in a flash. Even in a literal sense, you spend less time looking at a favourable board rather than a messed up one (unless you screenshot it to show off but hey who does that).

Unknown

Another case I had was in an Invisible Woman required mission, I got an invisibility off with IW just before she would've died as the last person, but the yellow was placed in a relatively safe spot. Then, the board resets and the invisibility tile was part of a match 4 with no way of being broken up (if I didn't take the match the AI will definitely take it next turn), so I did the match 4 and killed myself instead.

Unknown

Lately I was lucky to be the one who benefits from some crazy cascades and not the AI, so I don't believe any more the AI is cheating. It is all based on randomness and luck.

If you don't believe me, check the next link. It shows the most incredible game I have had so far. The picture shows the AP I had at the beginning of my second turn. All the AP I have were gained from multiple cascades and 5-mathes in the 1st round.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n57 ... e1075a.png

chamber44

Narkon wrote:

Lately I was lucky to be the one who benefits from some crazy cascades and not the AI, so I don't believe any more the AI is cheating. It is all based on randomness and luck.

If you don't believe me, check the next link. It shows the most incredible game I have had so far. The picture shows the AP I had at the beginning of my second turn. All the AP I have were gained from multiple cascades and 5-mathes in the 1st round.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n57 ... e1075a.png

is that what the game looks like on Steam?

grrr. I wish it worked on my Mac.

over_clocked

Doragon wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:

I just posted this in another thread so it's a straight copy/paste here. Sorry for any repetition of above.


Now to be fair these situations really don't happen all that often, but are certainly more memorable.

That's because when the same thing happens to you, you don't think so much and the match is over in a flash. Even in a literal sense, you spend less time looking at a favourable board rather than a messed up one (unless you screenshot it to show off but hey who does that).

Psst...

Unknown

locked wrote:

Psst...

Wowee, that's a sweet board to start on, huge dilemma though. Bet you wish you coulda stunned them for 3 turns to finish all the match-4s. And haha I stand corrected.

Unknown

If I find myself in a situation where there are two 4-in-a-row possibilities and I know that AI will be given one if I take mine, I generally look for a way to get two 3s instead and ruin both 4-match possibilities.

A lot of the time if there is a 4-match available for me but in a colour I know the AI doesn't need I'll just let the AI have it as it guarantees me "my" colours for two turns. Also, a 4-match will generate 4 additional random AP that are also in that row, so giving the AI 4 AP of an off colour and 4 random (probably with an environmental tile) seems preferable than allowing them a 3-match of colours they need. Last thing, a 4-match rarely leads to a cascade therefore I much prefer giving the AI a 4-match at times as it make it so much easier to predict what the layout of the board will be afterwards.

Talahamut

Looks like a chess question... Which starting move will win the game for Player 1 in 1 turn?

Unknown

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

Unknown

I'd take the top match 4 which takes out the top 2 rows, and then an environmental tile will drop on upper right, allowing the AI to take the red 4 which cascades into a blue match 5 and then you die horribly.

Edit: Actually looking at the board some more, taking the enviornmental match 3 on the right cascades into a blue match 5, so that should be done first and hopefully it breaks up the board into something saner too.

Unknown

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

No chance.

Unknown

I don't really think that the AI cheats. If the devs took their time to develop that code, they might as well have the AI recognize L and T-shaped match 5's. That would've been more troublesome. I guess it's more of a profile for new tile generation, sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. I'm guessing they set how likely that would happen in each level since you can almost always have match 5 and multiple cascades at least once in prologue 1-1. Although it really is frustrating when you know you can easily win against it and the AI ends up on beating you because of the godlike cascades. What's infuriating is how the AI triggered infinite cascades two fights in a row earlier, swept my health packs clean .

Unknown

jozier wrote:

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

No chance.

Why not?

For the sake of argument : the game board could be actually 3 rows higher, but these rows are hidden from us.
Then set logic to state that colour matches can only occur from row 4 downwards.

Unknown

morphy wrote:

jozier wrote:

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

No chance.

Why not?

For the sake of argument : the game board could be actually 3 rows higher, but these rows are hidden from us.
Then set logic to state that colour matches can only occur from row 4 downwards.

Nope. The AI passes up on way too many superior moves.

Unknown

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

I don't know the original thread it happened on, it was before my time, but this has come up since and the answer is that the devs have stated that's not how it works. The reason it looks like that is because the AI goes off of probability and knows what is likely to come next. If you notice a few moves into the match the board starts to refresh tile colors that are missing* so there is a pattern for the AI to go off of, it's just not what we think it is.

* except yellow for IM40, because the AI hates him. That's just a guess but it feels solid.

Unknown

morphy wrote:

jozier wrote:

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

No chance.

Why not?

For the sake of argument : the game board could be actually 3 rows higher, but these rows are hidden from us.
Then set logic to state that colour matches can only occur from row 4 downwards.

Because the devs admitted that they are too lazy to program it (i.e. it would be extra work). This has been around since original Puzzle Quest, which I tried, and believe me, this game is nowhere near as harsh with calculating the probabilities.

If you dont believe the AI does not cheat, go play that game for 3-4 hours and then you will not mention this topic ever again

Infrared

How about a game engine update to reduce the appearance of cheating? Maybe make it so that when new replacement tiles drop in from the top, no more than 2/3 can be the same colour? This would avoid some of the extreme AI miracle cascades.

Unknown

Viorala wrote:

morphy wrote:

Actually I do think the AI "cheats".

I think the AI knows what are the upcoming tiles, so they match taking into account what is coming next.

Its not that hard to program it that way

I don't know the original thread it happened on, it was before my time, but this has come up since and the answer is that the devs have stated that's not how it works. The reason it looks like that is because the AI goes off of probability and knows what is likely to come next. If you notice a few moves into the match the board starts to refresh tile colors that are missing* so there is a pattern for the AI to go off of, it's just not what we think it is.

* except yellow for IM40, because the AI hates him. That's just a guess but it feels solid.

That's not very significantly different from my proposition. Okay so they don't know for sure, but they have a better idea of the probability than we do . Which leads to them having multiple matches (cascades) when they "predict" the right colours that fall to continue matching.

Not that I am complaining - their logic is pretty tinykitty (with the no L-shapes or preference for environmental tiles); and they don't know how to use the abilities for tinykitty.

I like the word tinykitty.

Unknown

Infrared wrote:

How about a game engine update to reduce the appearance of cheating? Maybe make it so that when new replacement tiles drop in from the top, no more than 2/3 can be the same colour? This would avoid some of the extreme AI miracle cascades.

This would only make the game dumber. Believe me, the AI is STUPID, and operates on a really basic level. Want some examples? All the T and L matches missed, or how it plays MNMag or GSBW purple powers. The "miracle cascades" as you call them are probably the only thing that makes matches somehow unpredictable. And for those that still think that the AI cheats: record your matches. Not 3, not 5, make it dozens or hundreds. A STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICATIVE sample. Play at your best and then please get back and report us your findings. Bring us the definitive proof that the devs have programmed a cheating AI. Thanks.