Huge Flaw in All Events...

SeditiousCanary

I'm really frustrated with the all events. The issue is that while I enjoy a build limitation (cast 2 or less support, cast 2 or less creatures, etc.), these challenges are not on even footing with the decks they are paired against, which have no such limitation. Having to play against a top tier Koth deck running cards like Agro Bacon, Combustible Gearhulk, Olivia, and the other cards you'd expect to see in a Quick Battle is amazingly frustrating. I like a challenge, but these are frequently so lopsided in power balance that the fun had is limited at best, and the rewards are rarely worth the time invested.

Volrak

SeditiousCanary wrote:

I'm really frustrated with the all events. The issue is that while I enjoy a build limitation (cast 2 or less support, cast 2 or less creatures, etc.), these challenges are not on even footing with the decks they are paired against

I'm sorry you're frustrated. What you're saying is true, however, what's also true is that despite the above, players still tend to win the vast majority of their event games vs the AI. So it's clear that the overall tilt of any uneven footing between players and AI greatly favours the players, for reasons including players always going first, and the AI not being programmed to be a great strategist or tactician. Imagine how unfair the AI must think those things are.

To me, none of those things really matter too much, in comparison to players being on an even footing to compete with each other - which is mostly true now. Although needing to race at the end of events to break ties is still not ideal, especially given the unfair impact of being in different timezones.

AettThorn

Volrak wrote:

SeditiousCanary wrote:

I'm really frustrated with the all events. The issue is that while I enjoy a build limitation (cast 2 or less support, cast 2 or less creatures, etc.), these challenges are not on even footing with the decks they are paired against

I'm sorry you're frustrated. What you're saying is true, however, what's also true is that despite the above, players still tend to win the vast majority of their event games vs the AI. So it's clear that the overall tilt of any uneven footing between players and AI greatly favours the players, for reasons including players always going first, and the AI not being programmed to be a great strategist or tactician. Imagine how unfair the AI must think those things are.

To me, none of those things really matter too much, in comparison to players being on an even footing to compete with each other - which is mostly true now. Although needing to race at the end of events to break ties is still not ideal, especially given the unfair impact of being in different timezones.

You'd be right except that it basically means that those players who get paired against easy opponents get a very easy time of it, and can easily get perfect scores, while others get paired against decks with a huge amount of optimized mythics. Those who get screwed by their opponent list basically have to "overcome" this additional hindrance that others might not have to, making the end results a bit skewed.

If there was true randomness in your opponents, this wouldn't be a problem over and over again for some people, but take a look at my opponent list that I put up in the general forum for the recent Emrakul event:

rjm382: 4
Rohan49: 2
DragonPK: 3
glopezl: 2
Other: 1

Event decks: 1
Non-Event decks: 10
Unknown: 1 (contained Olivia, not sure if for Vampires, or just optimized)

There's no variation in opponents, really. So if I get paired against good players with ridiculous decks and card availability, I am more screwed than others who get easier pairings. Now, I might still be able to win against some of them, but over time my luck will run out against decks like some of these.


I'd really love to see a breakdown of the number of players in my brackets that actually have Olivia or the warpig, and then see how many decks I go against that have them in it. I bet that I face a higher percentage of decks that have Olivia than the percentage of players that have her.


There's also the issue that you come across certain planeswalkers much more often than others, even though more people should have the others. For instance, do you come across more Sorins, Koths, and Kioras than Gideon1, Nissa1, and Jace1? Why? In theory, less players should have the former list. And those players that do have them also likely have the latter list as well. You should, in theory, be coming across more from the later list than the former, but I never find that to be the case. So clearly there is some sort of weighting going on that we should know about.

ReddMaxx

AettThorn wrote:

Volrak wrote:

SeditiousCanary wrote:

I'm really frustrated with the all events. The issue is that while I enjoy a build limitation (cast 2 or less support, cast 2 or less creatures, etc.), these challenges are not on even footing with the decks they are paired against

I'm sorry you're frustrated. What you're saying is true, however, what's also true is that despite the above, players still tend to win the vast majority of their event games vs the AI. So it's clear that the overall tilt of any uneven footing between players and AI greatly favours the players, for reasons including players always going first, and the AI not being programmed to be a great strategist or tactician. Imagine how unfair the AI must think those things are.

To me, none of those things really matter too much, in comparison to players being on an even footing to compete with each other - which is mostly true now. Although needing to race at the end of events to break ties is still not ideal, especially given the unfair impact of being in different timezones.

You'd be right except that it basically means that those players who get paired against easy opponents get a very easy time of it, and can easily get perfect scores, while others get paired against decks with a huge amount of optimized mythics. Those who get screwed by their opponent list basically have to "overcome" this additional hindrance that others might not have to, making the end results a bit skewed.

If there was true randomness in your opponents, this wouldn't be a problem over and over again for some people, but take a look at my opponent list that I put up in the general forum for the recent Emrakul event:

rjm382: 4
Rohan49: 2
DragonPK: 3
glopezl: 2
Other: 1

Event decks: 1
Non-Event decks: 10
Unknown: 1 (contained Olivia, not sure if for Vampires, or just optimized)

There's no variation in opponents, really. So if I get paired against good players with ridiculous decks and card availability, I am more screwed than others who get easier pairings. Now, I might still be able to win against some of them, but over time my luck will run out against decks like some of these.


I'd really love to see a breakdown of the number of players in my brackets that actually have Olivia or the warpig, and then see how many decks I go against that have them in it. I bet that I face a higher percentage of decks that have Olivia than the percentage of players that have her.


There's also the issue that you come across certain planeswalkers much more often than others, even though more people should have the others. For instance, do you come across more Sorins, Koths, and Kioras than Gideon1, Nissa1, and Jace1? Why? In theory, less players should have the former list. And those players that do have them also likely have the latter list as well. You should, in theory, be coming across more from the later list than the former, but I never find that to be the case. So clearly there is some sort of weighting going on that we should know about.

I think some of your assumption are off. I dont know what tier you are in but almost everyone i know has olivia. It was for sale and everyone who could bought it. And because the card is so good it is in almost every red and black deck. So i think if you took a survey you will find alot of decks use it.

The second issue i think you are overlooking is the different types of pw you expect to fight. Again i dont know what tier you are in but you only fight pw within five levels. Alot of people only level the pws the want to play. So if you are level 60 then some of the lesser used pws are not leveled as high and you wont see them. I never leveled jace or gideon. I got kiora and the other multi white ones. Nissa and l1 are the only ones i bothered leveling.

And until you play gunnybunny or fiddler 5 out 10 times then you dont know what tough is.

madwren

ReddMaxx wrote:

I think some of your assumption are off. I dont know what tier you are in but almost everyone i know has olivia. It was for sale and everyone who could bought it. And because the card is so good it is in almost every red and black deck. So i think if you took a survey you will find alot of decks use it.

Just to clarify, not everyone has Olivia. We have F2P or non-whale members in our coalition that do not, and we're pretty good.

That doesn't mean they don't regret not purchasing her when they had the chance. However, considering the tens of thousands of players scattered across various brackets, there are surely a lot more people in the "don't spend money" boat than there are the "throwing out cash for Olivia" one.