Collecting data for Alliance Rewards Cutoffs in PvP Tourneys

NorthernPolarity

Theres been a lot of debating about how alliances impact the playerbase in terms of rewards structure, so I wanted a better idea of how well an alliance needs to do in order to qualify for awards. In particular, if you are in an alliance near the top 100 cutoff (for covers) and top 2500 cutoff (for hp) in the current PvP tournament, could you please post how many alliance points you need in order to get in one the top 100/250 (preferably at the end of the tournament)? Thanks!

Unknown

Great idea! Small note, though. I think you mean "covers" at the 100 point cutoff, not "rosters."

Eager to hear reports!

mischiefmaker

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Fluffyudders wrote:

I was running a very high scoring 5-man alliance for the last PVE event, and fell out of the top 250. The only way I managed to get back up there was by using up my HP stash, buying two member slots and hiring 'freelancers' to push our score up. I'd be very interested to know how other 5-man alliances managed to maintain their spot in the top 250 without some kind of shadiness... I think we all scored around 250k each (did anyone hit 300k?) and needed around another 300k to break into the top 250.

IceIX wrote:

PVP is Top 100 instead of 250, so it's tightened a bit there. Again though, Alliance median score wasn't much more than 200 across all Alliance members. I'd have to go through and click each count specifics, but I can quickly say over a dozen 5s did and more could have if they had tried as a group. It wouldn't have taken much more than 400 a piece to hit it. So not *easy*, but definitely viable to be a 5 at this point in time still.

mischiefmaker wrote:

I don't know what the landscape is like now, but I can tell you that for the first alliance PvP (black panther yellow cover, I think, so fairly desirable), my alliance was five people: me and Lyrian, who would probably qualify as Top-5 players; two casual people we know IRL, who are more like top 10 to top 50, depending on how hard they want to try, and a random dude with a bunch of maxed 3*s (we got lucky there). We finished at 3350, which was good for something like 95th place.

Bowgentle

Well, that post from Ice is not quite what my alliance experienced.
In the fearless defenders we came in 101, missing the black Hulk by exactly ONE position.
12 man alliance, about 6880 points a few minutes before the end.
So that "400 per member is good enough for top 100" simply doesn't ring true, at least not in the latest tournaments.

Unknown

It does seem the performance v. placement curve has gone up since the first alliance tournament and may continue till things normalize a bit more

Unknown

Perhaps overall voluntary data collection for a given event: placement, points, # of members in Alliance (ie, 48, 3 kajillion, 18) and some poor sodding soul could compile the info.

Some.. OTHER... poor sodding soul....

Unknown

I'll try to grab numbers tonight on the PVP may take the number from 15 minutes till close just in case I need to grind the last minutes

mischiefmaker

Bowgentle wrote:

Well, that post from Ice is not quite what my alliance experienced.
In the fearless defenders we came in 101, missing the black Hulk by exactly ONE position.
12 man alliance, about 6880 points a few minutes before the end.
So that "400 per member is good enough for top 100" simply doesn't ring true, at least not in the latest tournaments.

I clarified this with IceIX -- his data is from the Unholy Outlaw tournament, which was before Fearless Defenders. So this makes me think that we need to track more data:

- date of tournament end (I suspect over time the cutoff will go up, and weekday/weekend might matter too)
- alliance cover reward (seems likely that more desirable covers will have higher cutoffs)
- points and placement, ideally identifying the top 100 cutoff.

Here's what I've got based on data from me, Bowgentle, and IceIX:

Fearless Defenders, Sunday 3/16, reward Black Panther blue, cutoff around 3300-3400
Lord of Thunder, Friday 3/28, reward Patch yellow
Unholy Outlaw, Sunday 3/30, reward Black Panther yellow, cutoff around 2000
Fearless Defenders, Wednesday 4/2, reward Hulk black, cutoff around 6900
Best There Is, end 4/4, reward Cap yellow

Unknown

13 Man alliance rank #78 ~6700 points

Alliances I could see near our rank ranged from another size 13 up to several size 20's

mohio

Cryptobrancus probably saw ours - 13 member alliance (just added our 13th which I think put us over the top), we were in the 100-range with a few hours to go sitting around 5000 points iirc. Guys really put in a big push and ended on 6818 in 80th place. This is all for The Best There Is, in case that wasn't clear. I imagine it being for the new character this will be one of the higher point cutoffs on the list.

edit : just looked back at our alliance chat - with about 1:45 left 100 was at 5623. Have to assume that went up by the end of the tournament - maybe 6000 or 6200 ish? Obviously speculation, I'm sure we'll find the real number sooner or later.

Bowgentle

Came in 49th in the BTI tourney this morning, so I got some cutoff data for top 50 with 0 seconds to go:

Rank 50 was 5DeadlyToxins @8.355 points,
51 had 8.269,
49 had 8.368

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

Well, that post from Ice is not quite what my alliance experienced.
In the fearless defenders we came in 101, missing the black Hulk by exactly ONE position.
12 man alliance, about 6880 points a few minutes before the end.
So that "400 per member is good enough for top 100" simply doesn't ring true, at least not in the latest tournaments.

Yep, IceIX dropped in some numbers but not the one answering the question then didn't bother with more direct answer. And his numbers don't really add up. So I really welcome this thread, please whoever has data points post them.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

Well, that post from Ice is not quite what my alliance experienced.
In the fearless defenders we came in 101, missing the black Hulk by exactly ONE position.
12 man alliance, about 6880 points a few minutes before the end.
So that "400 per member is good enough for top 100" simply doesn't ring true, at least not in the latest tournaments.

Yep, IceIX dropped in some numbers but not the one answering the question then didn't bother with more direct answer. And his numbers don't really add up. So I really welcome this thread, please whoever has data points post them.

Way late to this thread, but yes, you are onto something here.

IceIX wrote:

Alliance median score wasn't much more than 200 across all Alliance members.

Note the underlined text. The median score was 200 across all alliances. This is discussing the 50th percentile.

The problem here is top 100 placement for alliances has nothing to do with the 50th percentile overall. Last I recalled, there are more than 5000 alliances out there. There might even be close to 10000 by now. If there are 5000 alliances, then the top 100 is the highest scoring 2% of alliances. At 10,000, that is the top 1%.

If the 50th percentile is at 200 points, then the curve for point distribution would seem to be heavily biased towards zero points, which would make sense if the vast majority of the player base is casual. Therefore, IceIX's data point, which has no reason to be incorrect, is immaterial to this discussion.

What would be more relevant, is the median score of the top 200 alliances, for the 100 that earned the Hulk Black and the next 100 that did not. I believe I can safely say that the median score for the top 200 alliances would be significantly higher than 200 points. I personally would be surprised if the median average score for the top 200 alliances was less than 450-500 points, as the protection from point loss below 500 all-but-ensures that anyone that puts forth a reasonable effort can brute force to that score, even with significant point losses from attacks.

NorthernPolarity

Lyrian wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

Well, that post from Ice is not quite what my alliance experienced.
In the fearless defenders we came in 101, missing the black Hulk by exactly ONE position.
12 man alliance, about 6880 points a few minutes before the end.
So that "400 per member is good enough for top 100" simply doesn't ring true, at least not in the latest tournaments.

Yep, IceIX dropped in some numbers but not the one answering the question then didn't bother with more direct answer. And his numbers don't really add up. So I really welcome this thread, please whoever has data points post them.

Way late to this thread, but yes, you are onto something here.

IceIX wrote:

Alliance median score wasn't much more than 200 across all Alliance members.

Note the underlined text. The median score was 200 across all alliances. This is discussing the 50th percentile.

The problem here is top 100 placement for alliances has nothing to do with the 50th percentile overall. Last I recalled, there are more than 5000 alliances out there. There might even be close to 10000 by now. If there are 5000 alliances, then the top 100 is the highest scoring 2% of alliances. At 10,000, that is the top 1%.

If the 50th percentile is at 200 points, then the curve for point distribution would seem to be heavily biased towards zero points, which would make sense if the vast majority of the player base is casual. Therefore, IceIX's data point, which has no reason to be incorrect, is immaterial to this discussion.

What would be more relevant, is the median score of the top 200 alliances, for the 100 that earned the Hulk Black and the next 100 that did not. I believe I can safely say that the median score for the top 200 alliances would be significantly higher than 200 points. I personally would be surprised if the median average score for the top 200 alliances was less than 450-500 points, as the protection from point loss below 500 all-but-ensures that anyone that puts forth a reasonable effort can brute force to that score, even with significant point losses from attacks.

Yeah. I created this discussion because I was arguing about how newer players are either just as good or better off than they were before with the introduction of this alliance feature. Top 100 would show how people can get 3* covers that they wouldn't otherwise have gotten, and top 2500 would show (hopefully) that you can join a random active 5 player alliance and easily get the points needed to break that threshold to show that the 50hp reward that was moved didn't affect anyone.

Unknown

in the last pvp (first avenger) my alliance averaged almost exactly 500 points per player (15man, 7451 score), which got us rank #53 (#50 was 7816).

Unknown

The Anti-PVPLeague will aid this endeavor, should we find ourselves near the rank thresholds.

But, are you only interested in the cover rank cutoffs, or all the ranks?

Unknown

I would imagine all data points would be helpful. Sorry I was not able to check our alliance score right at the end of this last one. We were right at the cutoff too (the wrong side of the cutoff)

NorthernPolarity

IHatePVP wrote:

The Anti-PVPLeague will aid this endeavor, should we find ourselves near the rank thresholds.

But, are you only interested in the cover rank cutoffs, or all the ranks?

Primarily the cover/hp rank cutoffs, but more data points would be useful to see what kind of point distribution were dealing with!

Unknown

If I had to estimate the last cutoff I would guess around 6500

Unknown

Iso 8 PVE

211 had 650k points 207 665k

Edited for decimal place, oops

Unknown

http://zapodaj.net/f7ffee3f18dea.png.html standings with points around #110. 5mins before the end of Unstable ISO event.