State of the Platinum metagame pt 1: Defense (brag thread)

buscemi

It's been a while since we've considered what the general state of the MPQ Platinum Tier metagame is, and I think it's high time we revisted it.

Clearly, the metagame is largely driven by a small number of power cards right now: Behold the Beyond, Seasons Past/Nissa's Renewal, and Deploy the Gatewatch, to name but 4. This is not all of Tier 1, but I feel it's a reasonable representation of the type of offense that exists right now: The best decks are able to put multiple diverse threats straight onto the board in a single turn.

The question then becomes.. are the answers available to Tier 1 decks powerful enough, or are we in danger of facing a tipping point where aggressive builds are unbeatable?

Let's start by considering one of the better Tier 1 defensive cards: Prism Array. In the past, Prism Array has been attacked for being way too powerful. But is that really the case?

Prism Array has two effects which trigger upon landfall, and we should consider them both.

Firstly, card draw. It's easy to over-estimate how powerful card draw is in Magic:Puzzle Quest. In Paper MTG drawing cards is one of the most powerful effects in the game, but remember that Paper MTG has no maximum hand size... if you draw 10 cards, you get 10 more cards in your hand. MPQ tops out at 6 cards and so very often the card draws are wasted, espcially if you draw 3 on both your's and you opponent's turn. Prism Array's card draw effect is therefore far from being broken; generally it will just give a small infusion of cards to your hand, which is necessary in the current meta.

Secondly, untargetted, repeatable disabling ability. This is a powerful ability, but a repeatable disabling ability is a far cry from a permanent one like Suppresion Bonds or Hixus, Prison Warden. Huge threats abound in the game now, from large hasted creatures like Decimator of the Provinces and Olivia, which Prism Array will offer no protection against on the turn they come into play, to huge 32/32 game enders like Kiora's Octopus Tokens, which will half-kill you if you fail to Disable them for even a single turn.

In short, powerful defensive cards like Prism Array are highly necessary to sustain the system of checks and balances which keeps Magic:Puzzle Quest from being a viable game. Calls for it to be nerfed in the past have been made from an emotional standpoint, and not a serious consideration of it's standing within the metagame, and they are entirely wrongheaded and should be ignored. It is VITALLY IMPORTANT that Prism Array is not nerfed, and instead continues to be a key card in the arsenal of any player who is lucky enough to get their hands on one.

Edited the title so that people don't get fooled into thinking it's actually useful // Alve

madwren

I've commented in the past that I'm disappointed at the inability of black and red to keep up with blue and white in terms of board sweepers. One reason deploy is strong is that so few colors have effective answers, and its sheer power and speed can overwhelm them before they can rally. Nahiri's Wrath and Languish aren't going to clear a board of 12/12s or higher, and even fall short in terms when protecting against the very common 8/8's--even though in paper, red and black traditionally were strong in this regard.

Falizar

But but but ... I use Prism Array with Season's Past and Nissa's Renewal in Kiora for insane turns as well.

A great defensive card since the AI always goes for a match 4 when necessary, but it is also a powerful card as well when used with Kiora to take the offense to even more ridiculous levels.

Mainloop25

Weren't you someone who called for a nerf to Prism Array before? Or was that just tongue in cheek since you didn't have it yet?

morgue427

seems fumigate is a decent help for alot of those isnt it? plus the white gearhulk which clears a all but himself and your first creature ?

Ohboy

Mainloop25 wrote:

Weren't you someone who called for a nerf to Prism Array before? Or was that just tongue in cheek since you didn't have it yet?

I think he more or less stood alone on that issue.

This has to be one of his sarcastic posts.

Ohboy

madwren wrote:

I've commented in the past that I'm disappointed at the inability of black and red to keep up with blue and white in terms of board sweepers. One reason deploy is strong is that so few colors have effective answers, and its sheer power and speed can overwhelm them before they can rally. Nahiri's Wrath and Languish aren't going to clear a board of 12/12s or higher, and even fall short in terms when protecting against the very common 8/8's--even though in paper, red and black traditionally were strong in this regard.

That's interesting because I haven't followed paper for a while. When I was playing, red and black didn't specialize in board wipes...more of targeted removals.

Did that change?

tm00

Ohboy wrote:

madwren wrote:

I've commented in the past that I'm disappointed at the inability of black and red to keep up with blue and white in terms of board sweepers. One reason deploy is strong is that so few colors have effective answers, and its sheer power and speed can overwhelm them before they can rally. Nahiri's Wrath and Languish aren't going to clear a board of 12/12s or higher, and even fall short in terms when protecting against the very common 8/8's--even though in paper, red and black traditionally were strong in this regard.

That's interesting because I haven't followed paper for a while. When I was playing, red and black didn't specialize in board wipes...more of targeted removals.

Did that change?

They can deal 3 damage or -3/-3 to the whole board respectively.
sometime they go up to 4, but numbers higher than that start to require inefficient spells with (usually) multiple x in their cost.

Only efficient ones I can remember that can remove things with toughness 5+ are mutilate, kozilek return(still 7 mana, but "free"), toxic deluge(legacy only), damnation and miracled bonfire of the damned

madwren

Ohboy wrote:

madwren wrote:

I've commented in the past that I'm disappointed at the inability of black and red to keep up with blue and white in terms of board sweepers. One reason deploy is strong is that so few colors have effective answers, and its sheer power and speed can overwhelm them before they can rally. Nahiri's Wrath and Languish aren't going to clear a board of 12/12s or higher, and even fall short in terms when protecting against the very common 8/8's--even though in paper, red and black traditionally were strong in this regard.

That's interesting because I haven't followed paper for a while. When I was playing, red and black didn't specialize in board wipes...more of targeted removals.

Did that change?

Black and red have always had board sweepers. Blacks are primarily of the -X/-X type, and red is damage, but a rather key aspect of this is that in paper there isn't a 3-creature limit. They can generate tremendous card advantage by wiping out armies of weenies. In PQ, they haven't scaled these spells to the extreme that they've followed with power/toughness, though, so Languish is virtually useless instead of, say, killing a horde of 1/1 elves or scions or servo tokens.

Here's a list..I can't verify how up-to-date it is, but it seems pretty thorough:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Wrath_effect

Edit to add: Blanket wrath effects have always been white's primary domain, of course, and that has carried over quite effectively.

Mainloop25

Ohboy wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

Weren't you someone who called for a nerf to Prism Array before? Or was that just tongue in cheek since you didn't have it yet?

I think he more or less stood alone on that issue.

This has to be one of his sarcastic posts.

As far as I know, no one has ever asked for Prism Array to be nerfed, besides him.

buscemi

Mainloop25 wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

Weren't you someone who called for a nerf to Prism Array before? Or was that just tongue in cheek since you didn't have it yet?

I think he more or less stood alone on that issue.

This has to be one of his sarcastic posts.

As far as I know, no one has ever asked for Prism Array to be nerfed, besides him.

Well, it's not really important who said it. It could have been anyone. But that was a long, long time ago, and it was a particularly innaccurate judgment on what I have recently come to realise is a very balanced and fair card indeed. Nerfing Prism Array at this point in the game would have catastrophic repurcusions on the metagame, and the long term future of Magic:Puzzle Quest itself.

wereotter

I feel that one answer may be to change the way cards like Prism Away, Claustrophobia, and Suppression Bonds work so that rather than disabling the first creature, they disable the first non-disabled creature. This would rarely made a difference, but for Dovin Baan, it would make lock down much more viable as a Claustrophobia out with Suppression Bonds will disable the first two creatures rather than both supports disabling the first one.

Alve

Okay, everyone, this has gone on long enough. I'm granting an official permission to put some of the forum rules aside for a moment and use this thread to insult Steve for trolling you just to brag about pulling Prism Array. Keep it PGA though (and that's an official warning to everyone posting here) - no profanities, no toxic comments and don't take it too seriously. Posts that are vulgar or seem to cross a line will be immediately removed. We could use a fun group activity to lighten the mood around here. I'll lock and move this thread later.

buscemi

I've literally no idea what you've talking about

khurram

That is a very accurate analysis of the current meta brought to us by one of our very own.

Makes me want to wonder about whats next. Cant wait to read part 2

THEMAGICkMAN

buscemi wrote:

I've literally no idea what you've talking about

So what other OP cards are you missing and want to be nerfed, until the day you get them?

prism array gets nerfed in next patch.

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........ -Shteev, 2017.

Imperat0r

Never gotten prism array myself but faced it many times and not once have I considered it OP in any way.
Itts not like its perma-lockdown.

THEMAGICkMAN

Imperat0r wrote:

Never gotten prism array myself but faced it many times and not once have I considered it OP in any way.
Itts not like its perma-lockdown.

It's great against the ai because it always goes for match 4s

khurram

Imperat0r wrote:

Never gotten prism array myself but faced it many times and not once have I considered it OP in any way.
Itts not like its perma-lockdown.

So very true.

Its not making anyone lose games just because of it. You dont go like "omg i am done now" and panic when it is played against you.... unlike some other cards

Ohboy

With all this serious discussions on array prism, it would be hilarious if devs notice and nerf it days after shteev posts his brag thread on finally getting it.

khurram

Ohboy wrote:

With all this serious discussions on array prism, it would be hilarious if devs notice and nerf it days after shteev posts his brag thread on finally getting it.

It will be tragedy, truly. And we'll know who to blame .