PvP needs weight classes

therightwaye

I'm not expert on choosing a PvP bracket at the right time to most effectively guarantee a good bracket. But I really wanted to put forth a good effort for the Captain Marvel Carol Danvers placement rewards.

And it didn't pan out. The top 10 players have 450+ championed 5 .

How am I supposed to compete with that? I have one 5 at level 300. My boosted RHulk is tough but not that tough.

So why is it there hasn't been some kind of weight class system installed? I thought that is what we were getting with CL, but alas no. You'd think I could choose a bracket with some kind of level cap.

I'd argue that is probably more advantageous for everyone. Players who aren't up for the challenge of placing high would have renewed vigor to try because at least they weren't facing Goliaths the entire time. And the whales will have more whales to play with. I mean challenge is essentially what makes any games more fun.

Am I right?

Jam_Adams

therightwaye wrote:

I'm not expert on choosing a PvP bracket at the right time to most effectively guarantee a good bracket. But I really wanted to put forth a good effort for the Captain Marvel Carol Danvers placement rewards.

And it didn't pan out. The top 10 players have 450+ championed 5 .

How am I supposed to compete with that? I have one 5 at level 300. My boosted RHulk is tough but not that tough.

So why is it there has been some kind of weight class system installed? I thought that is what we were getting with CL, but alas no. You'd think I could choose a bracket with some kind of level cap.

I'd argue that is probably more advantageous for everyone. Players who aren't up for the challenge of placing high would have renewed vigor to try because at least they weren't facing Goliaths the entire time. And the whales will have more whales to play with. I mean challenge is essentially what makes any games more fun.

Am I right?

I think maybe you contradicted your argument with that last statement...

Mr_Sinister

Jam_Adams wrote:

therightwaye wrote:

I'm not expert on choosing a PvP bracket at the right time to most effectively guarantee a good bracket. But I really wanted to put forth a good effort for the Captain Marvel Carol Danvers placement rewards.

And it didn't pan out. The top 10 players have 450+ championed 5 .

How am I supposed to compete with that? I have one 5 at level 300. My boosted RHulk is tough but not that tough.

So why is it there has been some kind of weight class system installed? I thought that is what we were getting with CL, but alas no. You'd think I could choose a bracket with some kind of level cap.

I'd argue that is probably more advantageous for everyone. Players who aren't up for the challenge of placing high would have renewed vigor to try because at least they weren't facing Goliaths the entire time. And the whales will have more whales to play with. I mean challenge is essentially what makes any games more fun.

Am I right?

I think maybe you contradicted your argument with that last statement...

I don't think it's a contradiction. There is no challenge for him against level 450+ champed 5*'s. That's non competitive. The challenge in this sense is finding people of his "weight" and beating them.

therightwaye

I think maybe you contradicted your argument with that last statement...

Getting to progression 900 is not without its challenges. But for the players who have 450+ champion 5 , are they really being challenged here?
Is it just as fun to steamroll everyone else?

If you are lucky enough to place top 5 with a roster of no champion'ed 5*... now I imagine that being hella fun.

Jam_Adams

oh, so you meant challenging from the perspective of the 5* people. I thought you meant challenge from your point of view.

The Bob The

To be clear: Are you suggesting you should be able to fight against less challenging teams for the same rewards as those who DO have to fight those teams, or that you should be able to do so for LESSER rewards?

broll

If SCL effected MMR then we'd essentially have this. It's disappointing that it does not. This IMO is the biggest misstep in what otherwise is an amazing new feature.

therightwaye

The Bob The wrote:

To be clear: Are you suggesting you should be able to fight against less challenging teams for the same rewards as those who DO have to fight those teams, or that you should be able to do so for LESSER rewards?

I have no specific design to rewards. But at least from my perspective does any of the top placement rewards go to anyone else but those players with champion 5 ? I've certainly not seen that happen in CL 7 or CL 8. Well I think I squeezed fifth spot once on a PvP I started with only seven hours left, one time.

fmftint

Blame Demiurge for
1. not opening SCL 9, 10
2. Making the jump from SCL 6, 7, 8 a complete joke

monsieurmojo

There's also the problem of target scarcity: wall everybody of the same weight classes into the same little playgrounds, and there will be a dearth of points available to everyone. You included.

Polares

broll wrote:

If SCL effected MMR then we'd essentially have this. It's disappointing that it does not. This IMO is the biggest misstep in what otherwise is an amazing new feature.

Completely agree.

And it is not just like that because Devs didn't dare to release all SCLs at the same time. This was a big wasted opportunity to fix PvP once and for all


PS: I don't think this will be fixed in the future because ranks now are not a function of how good your roster is, just how much you play or farm so now it is too late to use SCL as a measure of your roster strength.

firethorne

broll wrote:

If SCL effected MMR then we'd essentially have this. It's disappointing that it does not. This IMO is the biggest misstep in what otherwise is an amazing new feature.

Overall I agree. But, you're also assuming they managed the CL's and opened an appropriate number of them, which isn't guaranteed. For example, I'm in SCL8, lvl74. I have 10 4* champs. My best is a 277 Hulkbuster. But, since SCL8 is currently the highest, it would put me in the same "weight class" as people with maxchamp 370 4*s and 5* champs.

So, they'd have to both tie it into MMR and open up the long overdue CL's.

broll

Polares wrote:

PS: I don't think this will be fixed in the future because ranks now are not a function of how good your roster is, just how much you play or farm so now it is too late to use SCL as a measure of your roster strength.

True, it wouldn't be perfect, but it's close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. It would be better than nothing. If it was SR based people could choose to avoid SR if they wanted to the difficulty dialed down.

I'm not that optimistic that they will fix it. My gut feeling is this was supposed to fix it, and it got scraped as too hard somewhere in development and they watered down the idea (that or some non-technical bean counter forced them to make it tied more closely to how much you spend then your actual roster strength).

carrion_pigeons

I still like the idea of creating tiers by character instead of by level the way competitive Pokemon does. Ubers, overused, underused, never used. If you sign up to fight in Ubers you can use anything (and face anything), but if you sign up for an event as UU, then you can't use any of the most popular characters and have to adapt to a completely different meta.

It has the advantage of being dynamically self-balancing since more usage automatically puts pressure on people's ability to fill the meta with a character. And it rewards people for progressing without taking away their ability to play with characters they like.

Stax the Foyer

MPQ Musical Chairs: 500 players, 5 chairs.

Fun for the whole** family!



** 1%, rounded up.

therightwaye

I think my suggestion of a max level per PVP tier accomplishes a couple of things:

a) more leveled fighting field
b) if you choose to fight in a lower tier, you are still limited by level so you get to opportunity to use different characters that aren't as high of a level. Characters who are likely less used.

Ezrius

firethorne wrote:

broll wrote:

If SCL effected MMR then we'd essentially have this. It's disappointing that it does not. This IMO is the biggest misstep in what otherwise is an amazing new feature.

Overall I agree. But, you're also assuming they managed the CL's and opened an appropriate number of them, which isn't guaranteed. For example, I'm in SCL8, lvl74. I have 10 4* champs. My best is a 277 Hulkbuster. But, since SCL8 is currently the highest, it would put me in the same "weight class" as people with maxchamp 370 4*s and 5* champs.

So, they'd have to both tie it into MMR and open up the long overdue CL's.

I'm SCL 8, and I have 0 4* champs. That's not a typo. 0. My best is a 4/4/4 X-23 at 180. Yup, top tier player, right here. Might as well call me Ahab.

hodayathink

Ezrius wrote:

firethorne wrote:

broll wrote:

If SCL effected MMR then we'd essentially have this. It's disappointing that it does not. This IMO is the biggest misstep in what otherwise is an amazing new feature.

Overall I agree. But, you're also assuming they managed the CL's and opened an appropriate number of them, which isn't guaranteed. For example, I'm in SCL8, lvl74. I have 10 4* champs. My best is a 277 Hulkbuster. But, since SCL8 is currently the highest, it would put me in the same "weight class" as people with maxchamp 370 4*s and 5* champs.

So, they'd have to both tie it into MMR and open up the long overdue CL's.

I'm SCL 8, and I have 0 4* champs. That's not a typo. 0. My best is a 4/4/4 X-23 at 180. Yup, top tier player, right here. Might as well call me Ahab.

Same here, technically. Even if I were to pour all my stored ISO into my characters, I'd only have 3 4* champs, with only one (Teen Jean) being top tier.

granne

I'm SCL8 too, and my best covered 4* is my 1/2/1 X-Force Wolverine.

A couple of minutes ago, I checked the top of my Sim bracket and spotted a certain king.

I had a good laugh at that one.

alphabeta

I'm confused - isn't this what SCL is for?

You are playing in the top level of the game available for a newly released character in the highest tier available through game play itself and your surprised that you are facing players with rosters at the top end of the game tree - where else do you expect them to play exactly?

Mr_Sinister

alphabeta wrote:

I'm confused - isn't this what SCL is for?

You are playing in the top level of the game available for a newly released character in the highest tier available through game play itself and your surprised that you are facing players with rosters at the top end of the game tree - where else do you expect them to play exactly?

I would agree with you if 5* players weren't also in 6 and 7, and not just a few. The problem remains there is no incentive for them to move into the same clearance level, so they don't. They are actively avoiding each other, even when it comes to season brackets.