How to prevent massive PVP point loss

mpqr7

I get that if you're a 2* / 3* player, you shouldn't necessarily be able to reach 1200. But I feel that if you're a 4* / 5* player, you should have a fighting chance, if you're good enough to beat all of your opponents.

I think that you should only be able to lose one defensive battle at a time, or if you lose a defensive battle, then you get a 5-minute guarding period where you can then try to climb up and regain the points that your defensive team just lost. It should be cumulative, so if you lose 4 defensive battles in a row due to server lag, then you should get 20 minutes of guarding where you can fight matches without suffering further defensive losses. And then you can be visible for that amount of time after you guarded.

There's nothing more annoying than being at 1160, unshielding, winning a 60 point battle, finding out that you're at 1155, winning another 60 point battle, ending up at 1150, winning one more 60 point battle and then finding out that you're at 1080 or lower.

A 2* / 3* player wouldn't be able to defeat opponents with 4* / 5* rosters, but if you're good enough to defeat those opponents, then you should have a path to 1200. You shouldn't be forced to win the match AND need to do it magically in under 2 minutes, just to avoid a deluge of losses. It's so infuriating when that happens.



Also you can get rid of all these extra protections once someone hits 1200. Because at that point, it's the battle for placement, which is only won by the best of the best. The top placers in my shard always end up with 3000+ points, so they don't need any extra help. It's people like me who are Top 25 or lower, who can't make it to 1200, even though we can win all of the battles required to get there.

FaustianDeal

Here are the problems I see with this:
Do you get removed from the pool of targets for this to happen? Are you removed when someone starts a match gainst you, after someone finishes a match against you? Or only if you lose?
If you are removed from the pool of targets; how long does this immunity period last?
If you aren't removed from the target pool; what happens when someone else hits you?

These answers matter, because I don't see many options to guarantee you won't have several hits stack up:
1: remove you from the pool the moment someone starts a match against you
2: only debit your score for 1 hit received within the window

Option 1: remove you from the target pool
This option has lots of wrinkles on it. The only way something like this could possibly make sense would be for PVP matches to become timed. If the opponent isn't removed from the Q pool there is no way to limit the number of hits you take in a window. Otherwise I would simply select an alliance mate, and walk away for a few hours. They are now free to climb with impunity and no one else can Q them to hit them. That is an exploit I don't think anyone wants to allow.

So let's imagine that world:
You select someone from one of your PVP nodes, pick your team, pick your boosts/TUs - and when you click 'Begin' the game comes back with a message of "I'm sorry but this team is already engaged in another battle". You are dropped back to the node selection screen, and that target (and all its juicy points) has disappeared - replaced by some other, harder team worth **** points. Hooray? I think not.

Option 2: Only count 1 hit within a given window of time
Which hit do you count? Do you resolve: FIFO, LIFO, or only count the highest point loss match? Are defensive wins counted within this window of time, or do we have to forfeit gains in order to potentially limit losses? Do the other people who hit me still get credit for the points (creating point inflation within the slice that will make placement even harder for people and make the t10 lists look even more overblown)?

Let's talk about your proposed time window by the way:
Your 2 minute time window is far too narrow to actually complete a match against a viable team without resorting to whales. The 5 minute alternative I propose is already possibly not enough time to finish digesting a 5* Thanos and all the health pool he brings to the table. Locking someone out of the Q pool for longer than 5 minutes though has now created a situation where the risks of hits doesn't outweigh the gains of continuing to climb, even at higher scores. That's not desirable either. There are lots of single-match shield-hops that can take >5 minutes... so a 2 minute lockout for additional hits still sets you up for taking 3 or more hits during a single match if it runs long.

I hate to sound like "one of those players" but if you are implementing protections to guarantee top progression and then letting it turn into a dog-fight for placements after that - then it sounds a lot more like a modified PVE than PVP.

Megdar

You are aware that shield do exactly what he propose, and they already "fixed" every problem you tried to invent...

This is basically what he suggest... after the first hit, you are shielded for 5 min, so every other hit are just bounced, giving the point to the other player but no removing point from you...

Yes this would create point inflation, like any other pvp suggestion would do. They just have to adjust the progression in relation to it. We don't want easier or faster progression, we want less frustrating one.

FaustianDeal

if shields 'fixed' every problem he is encountering he wouldn't have asked for a change.
If progression wasn't frustrating it would be PVE.

You would be better served trying to attack the problem from the angle of how they calculate points lost versus points won for a given match. There is a modifier in that equation that causes points lost to be reduced - I believe it has to do with how far below 1000 points you are - such that you feel the full effect of every hit above 1000 points, but you only lose half the points when you are hit at 500. Convincing them to adjust that modifier so you aren't getting completely obliterated by each hit right as you cross the threshold might be an easier argument. That said - they intentionally set that value *below* top progression so that getting there would require effort.

One of the insidious problems in this game is balancing "guaranteed" prizes against "stretch" prizes. If you believe you should be able to win every progression prize in an event then you will never see "good" prizes offered in progression. Another remedial observation - why does PVP have progression anyway? (which goes hand-in-hand with "why does PVE have placement prizes".. but I digress.)

Not every prize need be winnable in every event.

Megdar

He is asking to be shielded after the first point lost. Yes the game mechanic and code that handle shield do exactly that, they do exactly what he want, stop loosing an insane amout of points during your fight. So the solution he propose is easy on game developpement side.

For the rest, this is your point of view. The designer never said Versus mode should be base on frustration, they also never said progression should not be attainable every event. I attain 800 progression every event, I get all the story progression every event, this include a 4*.

Versus mode is dated in relation to Story mode, and it need it's overhaul like the story mode got.

And we never asked for it to be easy, just less frustrating, there is way to make it competitive and a fight without stupid loss of 150 points in 10 min.

mpqr7

I get that 1200 shouldn't be "easy" to hit. But it doesn't seem right that after 2.5 years of intense play (with TWO five-stars at 400+!!!), it's still at the "insanely frustrating" level of difficulty. I can even get to 1000 or even 1100 relatively easily, but the last few hops to 1200 become "hopelessly unforgiving", which just isn't right. There must be a way to fill that gap.

I really like Clash of Clans because while you can lose defensive battles there, you then get shielded, so you can only lose at most 1-2 defensive battles per day. The only way you can lose more defensive battles per day in CoC is if you fight more offensive battles per day, as each fight dimishes your shield by a few hours. It shortens your shield, it doesn't destroy it.

And even when your shield runs out, you still have around 30 minutes of "guarding" period where you can fight, but no one can attack you.



So it can definitely be done in a way where you only suffer one loss at a time instead of multiple losses at once. And it can be done in a way that doesn't allow people to game the system.

Basically, you should only become invisible if you lose significant points. So if your alliance-mate fights you but doesn't beat you, then you don't become invisible, so they won't get anything out of it. And if you only lose 10 points to your alliance-mate, then you don't become invisible either. But if you suddenly lose 75 points, then you should get a reasonable amount of time to make up those points, instead of just "Well, you should have been able to defeat your lv 450/lv 350 opponents in 1 minute, so... too bad."