Dovin Baan could use a slight buff.

Mainloop25

Right now, Jace2 is a better planeswalker than Dovin Baan, overall. His mana gains are better for 2 colors even though he's a monocolor planeswalker, and his abilities usually end up helping you in a match more; even though he is considerably cheaper in crystal cost.

All you would need to do to make him a great planeswalker overall would be to make his blue and white mana gains +4 each, and/or lower his 3rd ability cost to 18 loyalty down from 21 loyalty. I end up using his 1st and 2nd ability often to add energy and power up my cards, so it's rare that I get to save up loyalty to use the 3rd ability.

Giving him slightly better mana gains would make it less necessary to use his first ability, and would make it easier to save loyalty to use his 3rd ability.

bk1234

Now that I've been forced to play with Dovin, I like him even less. His manna gain is awful -- which forces me to fill my decks with supplementing cards, and his abilities are WAY over-priced and useless because my deck of full of manna-gen cards.

I don't think I can remember the last time a PW was released this unbalanced--- in fact, besides being able to Deploy blue and white (and most people don't have DtG) -- I don't really see any value to him at all.

Merged with mainloop's topic // Alve

THEMAGICkMAN

Nyx + insidious will? Just sayin'

But yeah I see what you mean, still, it's nice to have a blue white planeswalker

Mainloop25

Haha. Dude I just made this exact thread in the suggestions forum. I feel the same way!

speakupaskanswer

I really enjoy playing with Dovin. I never use his second ability, but the other two are quite powerful. Though, I only play him with my best energy cards and he works really well this way. Sorry, but I don't see a real problem.

wereotter

I agree that he's pretty powerful as is, but a mild buff wouldn't hurt. Looking at Sorin and Nahiri, they have +4 in each their primary colors, though most two colors have +3 so a buff to mana might not be needed.

I do find that with as difficult as it is to keep energy on the field, since it seems the AI will actively attempt to remove it, that his abilities might need to be reduced in cost. They all play into each other nicely, but just are a bit high costed, and require you to run other energy generating cards in the deck to utilize him.

Another buff is to look at his signature cards. Empyreal Voyager is really good once you've got your engine online with his final ability support, but without that, it's too expensive a card, so a cost reduction or a power buff seems in order.

AngelForge

I don't think that Dovin needs a buff, but some other Planeswalker should take a step back so that we are all not so spoiled by massive mana gain...

Not everyone has high end cards and I might look cheap but I like the claustrophobia + swift reckoning combo... Niblis of Frost fits in there as well.

Regards!
Sven

Edit: But of course you can also buff a lot of planeswalker until they feel like Koth or Kiora.

span_argoman

Just played against Killwind's Dovin Baan deck in the event:
Sphinx of the Final Word
Startled Awake
Starfield of Nyx
Insidious Will
Hixus, Prison Warden
Suppression Bonds
(1 other support)
Talent of the Telepath
Imprisoned in the Moon
(1 other card which I don't recall)

Not sure one can call it weak. Oppressive is much closer.

Ohboy

Dovin is really far from weak.

He's just not obviously overpowered.

wereotter

span_argoman wrote:

Just played against Killwind's Dovin Baan deck in the event:
Sphinx of the Final Word
Startled Awake
Starfield of Nyx
Insidious Will
Hixus, Prison Warden
Suppression Bonds
(1 other support)
Talent of the Telepath
Imprisoned in the Moon
(1 other card which I don't recall)

Not sure one can call it weak. Oppressive is much closer.

Been getting paired against his decks constantly the last two events. All of them are pretty oppressive.

ZW2007-

Personally I don't find Dovin weak. He was my best planeswalker in Inventor's Fair even though my only lost match was with him. I think the core problem is that his abilities trick you into thinking that you have to use energize and overload cards but even the best of those cards don't stand up to what is available from previous sets. Here's just two examples within the same rarities that I used in Dovin when I shouldn't have.

Deadlock Trap vs Prison Bonds
Deadlock Trap - colorless, rare, 3 mana, 3 shields. Energize 2 when cast, Overload 1, disable the first creature your opponent controls until the beginning of your next turn.
Prison Bonds - white, rare, 6 mana, 1 shield. Disable the first creature your opponent controls.
Prison Bonds is clearly better even though it is more easily removed unless reinforced. Trap is half the many cost with three times as many shields but requires you to make an energy match on each of your turns to get its effect, plus you need to keep generating energy in order to do so. Bonds just gets out there and does its job and your only goal then is avoiding setting the AI up to destroy it, plus it shuts down a certain creature with haste and hexproof that cost me lots of points this event. A way to improve Trap would be to make it eat one energy at the beginning of your turn and disable the opponents creature. This way you wouldn't be stuck making off color matches just to trigger overload or even worse, not have any matches to trigger overload even though there is energy on the board. And I do appreciate the fact that Trap is colorless but it still would not be overpowered in non-white decks even with my suggested changes.

Era of Innovation vs Prism Array
Era of Innovation - blue, rare, 5 mana, 3 shields. When a creature type artificer or a support enters play, Energize 2, Overload 3, draw three cards.
Prism Array - blue, rare, 6 mana, 3 shields. When either player landfalls, disable the first creature your opponent controls until the beginning of your next turn and draw 3 cards.
Era of Innovation doesn't even come close to Prism Array. In fact, Prism Array is essentially a combination of Era of Innovation and Deadlock Trap, that either you or the AI can activate for you. Sure you aren't always guaranteed a landfall but you also aren't always guaranteed an Overload 1, let alone an Overload 3. I know it's been argued that Prism Array is OP and I can agree but that doesn't make Era of Innovation any less bad than it is.

Sure Deadlock Trap plus Era of Innovation could be very strong in a heavy energize deck but that requires a lot of moving parts to come together. The alternative is to just run Prism Array. I suspect in Amonkhet (set after Aether Revolt), that is exactly what will happen because energy will become a useless relic of this games past.

Maybe I' just ranting and maybe I'm just mad at myself for using the Kaladesh cards in Inventor's Fair instead of the cards I should have used in the first place but I think it's pretty obvious that you can accomplish the same things with non-Kaladesh cards while jumping through less hoops.

Side note, Dovin Baan's third ability created support needs 5 shields like every other planeswalker's third ability created support gets.

buscemi

ZW2007- wrote:

I think the core problem is that his abilities trick you into thinking that you have to use energize and overload cards but even the best of those cards don't stand up to what is available from previous sets.

I'm not sure this speaks to Dovin's power level as much as it does to a) the generally low power level of the Energize mechanic overall and b) the appalling brokenness of Prism Array.

hawkyh1

dovin can be quite powerful with modest white/blue
cards. I've been using curious homonculi(uncommon)
with encircling fissure(uncommon) to disable for 1
turn, almost every turn that I wait for other spells
to charge up with free mana.

HH

paralistalon

I didn't buy Dovin so was surprised when I looked at an opponent's Dovin when checking his loyalty and found that he only had +3 and +3 mana gain. This is the same as Kiora, but she gets Nissa's Pilgrimage to offset that. Meanwhile, my Saheeli is a total rockstar on mana gain!

bk1234

Manna gain is my biggest complaint with him. I have to load my deck down and I don't like that.

killwind

Even if Dovin Baan (DB) was a 0 across the board for colors I would play him. Blue/white are my strongest colors. Not to mention his first and 3rd abilities are solid. 2nd ability is alright you have some card draw built right in.

I worry less about what he does and focus on what I can use to really ruin everyone's day!

Oh and @bken I'm waiting on your response in private chat!

Mainloop25

killwind wrote:

Even if Dovin Baan (DB) was a 0 across the board for colors I would play him. Blue/white are my strongest colors. Not to mention his first and 3rd abilities are solid. 2nd ability is alright you have some card draw built right in.

I worry less about what he does and focus on what I can use to really ruin everyone's day!

Oh and @bken I'm waiting on your response in private chat!

That's because you have every mythic ;P

bk1234

killwind wrote:

Even if Dovin Baan (DB) was a 0 across the board for colors I would play him. Blue/white are my strongest colors. Not to mention his first and 3rd abilities are solid. 2nd ability is alright you have some card draw built right in.

I worry less about what he does and focus on what I can use to really ruin everyone's day!

Oh and @bken I'm waiting on your response in private chat!

I've heard all about what you've done with that deck.

Answered.

Oaklanbash

Killwind's Jace1 is not a lot of fun either hehe. Exert Influence, Day's Undoing, Startled Awake alone make a deck not a lot of fun to play against. Luckily the AI plays his deck pretty poorly.

J_Samael_C

Maybe his first ability could be a mana gain based on amount of energized gems? Almost like J2 mana gain based on supports.

Like, energize 3 and gain 1 mana per energized gen, or whatever.

jetnoctis

Dovin's mana gain: +6.
Saheeli's mana gain: +11.
'Nuff said.