Nice event!

madwren

wereotter wrote:

madwren wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Or they're non-event decks with one card replaced in order to fulfill the energize requirement.

I'm not trying to sound like a troll here, I promise, but what makes it a non-event deck, if it has the ability to fulfill the requirements mandated by the event? It would seem to me that powerful decks that can still manage to fulfill both requirements are the epitome of event decks.

I'm just curious where the line begins and ends for you. In the past, I've supported the introduction of block tournaments, for example, but a number of these cards are low-powered enough that meeting the secondary objectives would be difficult with only Kaladesh cards, and block restrictions would skew the tournament towards those fortunate enough to attain the few powerful rares and mythics in the set.

An example would be I've edited my Kiora deck to utilize the energize mechanic, taking out other more powerful cards to do so. However, I just lost a match to a Koth deck that had literally zero energize cards. It was all dragons, eldrazi, and burn spells. Great deck for the planeswalker, but strictly more powerful than I could compete against because of the changes the event forced me to make. The challenge of filling the requirements can and does create an uneven playing field when my opponent is playing literally any created deck, and I'm playing at a handicap.

No, I understand that. I was trying to get some clarification on why he considered the example he used a non-event deck, and wondering what his suggested changes would be.

Sure, if you run a full-out energy deck against a "normal" deck, you're sacrificing a lot of power. However, there's no need to edit your deck to such an extreme degree that it's costing you matches based on card power alone. The optimal event deck would be 1) a normal deck with 2) minimal changes that 3) allow you to complete the objectives.

THEMAGICkMAN

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

Kevinanth

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

I went into the event with Dovin, Arlinn and Nahiri. Anyone who plays an event match against me should only face those three walkers. Not any of my other walkers.

Volrak

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

It might also be worth pinning down why this is actually a problem. I think we're specifically talking about facing another player's planeswalker and deck, which were not even entered into the event by that player (and in some cases couldn't have been, because of colour requirements).

I think there are a few facets:

• It's never been clearly explained why this happens. And it's unexpected and strange when it does. If (for example) we were proactively told by the devs that it's not a bug, but a deliberate design to try to avoid 30-way ties for first place, then the whole psychology would change - rather than a weird inexplicable thing that happens sometimes, we would know it was just an expected challenge which was part of the event. So this aspect could be solved by more communication from D3. (Assuming it's not, actually, a bug...)
• It raises the average difficulty level of events. As long as progression rewards are balanced properly, I think this is not a problem, and is actually a good thing, because it addresses the 30-way tie problem. Others might disagree.
• It makes events more luck-dependent, because (presumably) some players face non-event decks more often than others. I think most people agree that all else being equal, increasing dependence on luck is not a good thing. But here's the thing: unless this is a worse problem than 30-way ties and race for tiebreaker, then we have to either live with it, or suggest a different solution to 30-way ties.

mouser

This is the least fun I've had playing an event in as long as I can remember.

The vast majority of players haven't accumulated enough Kaladesh cards to put together viable energy deck strategies, so the 2nd objective is clunky in most decks. Add on the even clunkier 3rd objective which will be significantly affected by luck for most decks, rather then skill in assembling and piloting a deck to hit the objectives.

jetnoctis

I like the events starting with as many charges as they do and the 8 hour recharge. I can actually have a life and not constantly worry about missing charged and waking up at 4am. If over these holidays it was like the past with 4 hour charges, it would've been extremely difficult for me to keep up and not lose charges, because life. I also think there are enough games played in every event and that it should not be increased. This change is the reason I finally spent some money on this game. Thank you, devs, and please keep these configurations as they are!

THEMAGICkMAN

Kevinanth wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

I went into the event with Dovin, Arlinn and Nahiri. Anyone who plays an event match against me should only face those three walkers. Not any of my other walkers.

Only playing against other submitted planeswaljers wouldn't work, because what happens if you're the very first person to submit a planeswalker? Do you just have to wait? I don't think this is the solution to the problem, but its a good idea and definitely something took keep in mind. Maybe if we can submit planeswalkers before event start? Not sure about this one.

Volrak wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

It might also be worth pinning down why this is actually a problem. I think we're specifically talking about facing another player's planeswalker and deck, which were not even entered into the event by that player (and in some cases couldn't have been, because of colour requirements).

I think there are a few facets:

• It's never been clearly explained why this happens. And it's unexpected and strange when it does. If (for example) we were proactively told by the devs that it's not a bug, but a deliberate design to try to avoid 30-way ties for first place, then the whole psychology would change - rather than a weird inexplicable thing that happens sometimes, we would know it was just an expected challenge which was part of the event. So this aspect could be solved by more communication from D3. (Assuming it's not, actually, a bug...)
• It raises the average difficulty level of events. As long as progression rewards are balanced properly, I think this is not a problem, and is actually a good thing, because it addresses the 30-way tie problem. Others might disagree.
• It makes events more luck-dependent, because (presumably) some players face non-event decks more often than others. I think most people agree that all else being equal, increasing dependence on luck is not a good thing. But here's the thing: unless this is a worse problem than 30-way ties and race for tiebreaker, then we have to either live with it, or suggest a different solution to 30-way ties.

Good idea, in my opinion it's a problem because it raises difficulty by a rather obscene amount sometimes (I mean come on, can you really beat non-event koth that gets turn 1 Olivia into turn 2 ulrich and piggy?) And that simply feels terrible. Playing against a non-event deck feels dreadful alot if the time and it's ruining events for some people. Playing against others who've changed their deck for secondarys is more fun and interesting. It's just generally better.
For your first point, true if the devs told us there was a purpose to the non-event decks then we wouldn't complain... Actually that's wrong, we'd complain about the prupose

Raising difficulty I like, but in the current event a lot of people have dropped points and games playing against event decks, as long as the secodarys continue to be well designed like this events secondarys are I don't think that the difficulty should be raised any higher, it's at a good spot with this event. And the fact that this is a 3 day event will dispell a lot of ties anyway, a lot of points have been dropped playing against event decks, but the tie issue should be solved regardless.

Honestly I think that all coalition events should be 2-3 days and 2 per week with 8 hour recharge timers that give you 2 games per recharge, and half charged nodes. The non-coalition events should be 1-2 days with the same timers as the coalition ones. As long as the issues if tiebreakers and non-event decks are solved this schedule would work very nicely I think. Hopefully the ties are fixed ASAP since they are the largest problem with events right now, non-event decks do suck though.

blacklotus

The one thing this event got it right is there is only 1 perfect score left in Platinum. And there's still 1.5 days to go.

no more 30 way tie of perfect scores.

blacklotus

I have to admit there are some very good kaladesh cards that are worth including in my decks. this event does make me look through my kaladesh collection again.

not all are mythic or rare. uncommon cards like unlicensed disintegration are good enough to replace cards from the earlier sets.

THEMAGICkMAN

blacklotus wrote:

I have to admit there are some very good kaladesh cards that are worth including in my decks. this event does make me look through my kaladesh collection again.

not all are mythic or rare. uncommon cards like unlicensed disintegration are good enough to replace cards from the earlier sets.

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

buscemi

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

The secondaries were well designed for platinum. Irritating though it is that energy, as a rule, sucks so badly, most of us in platinum have large collections full of broken power cards like Drowner, TSN and Prism Array which can take up the slack. And, yes, they did seem to solve the problem of tiebreaks... although once again the largest single factor affecting placement in the top 25 seems to have been game crashes.

I can understand how the objectives were infuriating for players with smaller collections, tho. Perhaps this was intentional, to get them to buy cards... I cant see how the recent monetization strategies of a) selling bad new cards, b) not selling good old cards, and c) rock bottom drop rate levels are encouraging card sales tho. If it did, those players will have just bought boxes full of trash KLD cards, which won't encourage them in the future.

Overload 2. Honestly....

Mainloop25

buscemi wrote:

I cant see how the recent monetization strategies of a) selling bad new cards, b) not selling good old cards, and c) rock bottom drop rate levels are encouraging card sales tho. If it did, those players will have just bought boxes full of trash KLD cards, which won't encourage them in the future.

You would think so, but I see people, against their own good judgment (they themselves admitting this) over and over again spending money on crystals for boxes, Their rationale basically boiling down to "this game is play to win, and I want to win. So I'm gonna pay."

Ohboy

buscemi wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

The secondaries were well designed for platinum. Irritating though it is that energy, as a rule, sucks so badly, most of us in platinum have large collections full of broken power cards like Drowner, TSN and Prism Array which can take up the slack. And, yes, they did seem to solve the problem of tiebreaks... although once again the largest single factor affecting placement in the top 25 seems to have been game crashes.

I can understand how the objectives were infuriating for players with smaller collections, tho. Perhaps this was intentional, to get them to buy cards... I cant see how the recent monetization strategies of a) selling bad new cards, b) not selling good old cards, and c) rock bottom drop rate levels are encouraging card sales tho. If it did, those players will have just bought boxes full of trash KLD cards, which won't encourage them in the future.

Overload 2. Honestly....

Overload 2 is doable for a dedicated energized deck. Overload 3 is the lol one.

As for non platinum decks... They're meeting non platinum decks in the event. Unless you're saying they're meeting platinum ones via the matchmaking fail?

THEMAGICkMAN

Ohboy wrote:

buscemi wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

The secondaries were well designed for platinum. Irritating though it is that energy, as a rule, sucks so badly, most of us in platinum have large collections full of broken power cards like Drowner, TSN and Prism Array which can take up the slack. And, yes, they did seem to solve the problem of tiebreaks... although once again the largest single factor affecting placement in the top 25 seems to have been game crashes.

I can understand how the objectives were infuriating for players with smaller collections, tho. Perhaps this was intentional, to get them to buy cards... I cant see how the recent monetization strategies of a) selling bad new cards, b) not selling good old cards, and c) rock bottom drop rate levels are encouraging card sales tho. If it did, those players will have just bought boxes full of trash KLD cards, which won't encourage them in the future.

Overload 2. Honestly....

Overload 2 is doable for a dedicated energized deck. Overload 3 is the lol one.

As for non platinum decks... They're meeting non platinum decks in the event. Unless you're saying they're meeting platinum ones via the matchmaking fail?

Not sure about silver or bronze, but the competition is quite even in gold. Just people getting unlucky facing non-event decks or getting freezes. Honestly I have only ever had the game freeze twice, only in story mode, and never any "serious" bugs, but with the amount I've heard about it from others it's a fricken big problem, fix non-event decks and freezes, get rid of planeswalker requirements and events will be a whole world better!

Szamsziel

Dovin + Aethersquall make overload 3 possible. (costed me some points as return w creature to full hand - destroy)

SpaceDuck

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

A bit of a side note here, but how would you reccomend fixing the problem of non-event decks?
(a deck not changed from it's "normal" state to fulfill secondary for an event)

Matchmaking should match you up with other decks based on their event rank +/- 50.

Obviously the first one or two games should be random, but after that by keeping you matched with similarly ranked players that should guarantee that event oriented players are matched with like decks and rando players just looking for the first individual rewards are matched with the same.

I finished painfully close to top 5 and my single loss came to a Koth QB deck with an event rank of 2340 and no energize cards. I'm "happy" (for lack of a better word) to lose because of bad play or bad luck, but it's very frustrating to lose ribbons to someone who isn't even trying to win the event.

wink

Yup, I just did an overload 3 with Dovin and Aethersqall, and almost lost the secondary as a result--killed 2 of my own creatures by accident. Luckily I hadn't lost any prior, and it was the final turn. But careless--I was all "I'm going to win this turn, just make any old match" and it turned out to be an overload 3 match--what are the odds?

wereotter

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

blacklotus wrote:

I have to admit there are some very good kaladesh cards that are worth including in my decks. this event does make me look through my kaladesh collection again.

not all are mythic or rare. uncommon cards like unlicensed disintegration are good enough to replace cards from the earlier sets.

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

I disagree. Tell me how the red node objective of take less than 15 damage works when paired against a Koth that manages to turn 1 Descimator of the Provinces, or how Dovin's objective to lose 2 or fewer creatures works when paired against a Sorin kill deck, both things that happened to me during the event.

No amount of adjusting my cards can prevent how many Grip of Desolation, To the Slaughter, Imprision in the Moon, Scour from Existance, etc my opponent is playing. And, very little deck adjustment can deal with 15 damage given the power level of many creatures. It basically says "you can be hit exactly once the whole match."

Ohboy

wereotter wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

blacklotus wrote:

I have to admit there are some very good kaladesh cards that are worth including in my decks. this event does make me look through my kaladesh collection again.

not all are mythic or rare. uncommon cards like unlicensed disintegration are good enough to replace cards from the earlier sets.

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

I disagree. Tell me how the red node objective of take less than 15 damage works when paired against a Koth that manages to turn 1 Descimator of the Provinces, or how Dovin's objective to lose 2 or fewer creatures works when paired against a Sorin kill deck, both things that happened to me during the event.

No amount of adjusting my cards can prevent how many Grip of Desolation, To the Slaughter, Imprision in the Moon, Scour from Existance, etc my opponent is playing. And, very little deck adjustment can deal with 15 damage given the power level of many creatures. It basically says "you can be hit exactly once the whole match."

You're not supposed to be able to hit secondary objectives with pinpoint accuracy every game.

That's how we got 60 way perfect score ties.

It's supposed to be tough.

There are people with high enough scores that show that while doing it 100% is hard, you can get close to it.

That's why it's only worth one point. It's the extra credit you need to work for.

Red node is the only one out of our control. You can actually do dovin creatureless. Or with hex proof if you want to risk it.

wereotter

Ohboy wrote:

wereotter wrote:

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

blacklotus wrote:

I have to admit there are some very good kaladesh cards that are worth including in my decks. this event does make me look through my kaladesh collection again.

not all are mythic or rare. uncommon cards like unlicensed disintegration are good enough to replace cards from the earlier sets.

The secondarys are incredibly well designed, they make you look through your collection and they have gotten rid of ties for 1st almost entirely.

I disagree. Tell me how the red node objective of take less than 15 damage works when paired against a Koth that manages to turn 1 Descimator of the Provinces, or how Dovin's objective to lose 2 or fewer creatures works when paired against a Sorin kill deck, both things that happened to me during the event.

No amount of adjusting my cards can prevent how many Grip of Desolation, To the Slaughter, Imprision in the Moon, Scour from Existance, etc my opponent is playing. And, very little deck adjustment can deal with 15 damage given the power level of many creatures. It basically says "you can be hit exactly once the whole match."

You're not supposed to be able to hit secondary objectives with pinpoint accuracy every game.

That's how we got 60 way perfect score ties.

It's supposed to be tough.

There are people with high enough scores that show that while doing it 100% is hard, you can get close to it.

That's why it's only worth one point. It's the extra credit you need to work for.

Red node is the only one out of our control. You can actually do dovin creatureless. Or with hex proof if you want to risk it.

It's not extra credit you have to work for. It's luck.

It's luck that determines you aren't paired against Ob Nixilis as Dovin, or against some Nahiri deck with every burn and disable spell in the game. It's luck that decides on the red node that your opponent didn't cascade out massive creatures with haste.