[edit] Randomness and Luck is good for this game

bbigler

Fightmastermpq wrote:

This is demonstrably false. You have to compare yourself to others because you compete against them in almost every game mode. The difference between a -5% and a +5% draw rate over a 2+ season hoard is HUGE......example. If we are talking about two players struggling to transition to the 5* tier it means that one player gets there literally MONTHS ahead of the other. That's months where one player is able to hit 1200 in PvP while the other isn't - making for even faster progression. And what if you saved up 300 latest pulls and end up without any usable 5*s compared to someone that ends up with 3 level 460s? Now what do you do as they move to classics? Continue to chase them for even longer? Meanwhile the guy with the +5% draw rate pounds you into the ground for the next 2+ seasons while you try to catch up.

In general I agree that luck is a big part of what makes games fun, but if there isn't anything in place to allow players to overcome really terrible luck it just becomes defeating and loses appeal.

Even though we compete against each other for placement, you still don't need to obsess and worry about progressing slower than someone else. This is a true principle of life; it's a personal journey. For example, everyone I know that runs marathons do it for personal satisfaction that they reached the finish line; they don't care too much about their placement; they care more that they achieved their goal. If someone's only satisfaction is being better than someone else, then they've got issues with pride and jealously. So, I don't care if someone gets 20% 5* draw rate opening a hoard and I only get 10%. I'll do the best with what I've got.

bbigler

Calnexin wrote:

That's what I meant by "putting in the work". My champs have occurred as the covers come - but come they do over time, greatly assisted by the farms and champ rewards. There are now guaranteed avenues for obtaining 4* covers. Pulling from tokens is still random, yes, but there are many more ways to get them. RNG is still a factor, but not nearly as much as it used to be.

Now, that only truly works if you're willing and able to roster everything. Constantly drawing characters you don't want to keep negates their utility for the rest of your roster, and RNG hurts more.

I wasn't trying to imply that randomness isn't a factor. It's just much less of one, and no longer one I'd consider a barrier to people trying to climb into the 4* tier. It is the dominant factor in trying to build a 5* roster. You only have a 10% chance using the rarest resources in the game. No champ rewards, no progression. There is no slow build opportunity - the only thing you can do is roll the dice and get lucky.

Yes, currently getting into the 5* tier is based purely on luck, but you can minimize that luck with large amounts of pulls and time. Before I started hoarding LT and CP, I would open 10 - 15 Legendary/Classic tokens a week and get 1 - 2 x 5* covers per week. That's a small sample, but it was true to the 15% odds, and those odds worked week after week.

You can also have hope that d3 will introduce new ways to obtain 5* covers. For the first year or two of the game, you could only obtain 4* covers from Heroic tokens at a 5% chance or place #1 in an event. That has obviously changed and it's much easier to get 4* covers now. I'm sure things will change in the future for the 5*s. Perhaps SCL9 will reward a 5* cover for placing #1; that doesn't help 99.99% of players, but it would be a start.

Crnch73

bbigler wrote:

Even though we compete against each other for placement, you still don't need to obsess and worry about progressing slower than someone else. This is a true principle of life; it's a personal journey. For example, everyone I know that runs marathons do it for personal satisfaction that they reached the finish line; they don't care too much about their placement; they care more that they achieved their goal. If someone's only satisfaction is being better than someone else, then they've got issues with pride and jealously. So, I don't care if someone gets 20% 5* draw rate opening a hoard and I only get 10%. I'll do the best with what I've got.

I mean some people care where they finish... that is why they keep track who won, who came in 10th, etc... no?

But I get your idea, I don't measure my team against other teams. I DO, however, still get extremely frustrated by the RNG 99 times out of 100. Like many have said, maybe I get lucky the next time and someone else doesn't... I get that. I just think the code mechanism needs to be altered a little bit to reflect the current landscape of the game. What worked for the game 16 months ago does not still work now. New rules apply

dsds

Crnch73 wrote:

bbigler wrote:

Even though we compete against each other for placement, you still don't need to obsess and worry about progressing slower than someone else. This is a true principle of life; it's a personal journey. For example, everyone I know that runs marathons do it for personal satisfaction that they reached the finish line; they don't care too much about their placement; they care more that they achieved their goal. If someone's only satisfaction is being better than someone else, then they've got issues with pride and jealously. So, I don't care if someone gets 20% 5* draw rate opening a hoard and I only get 10%. I'll do the best with what I've got.

I mean some people care where they finish... that is why they keep track who won, who came in 10th, etc... no?

But I get your idea, I don't measure my team against other teams. I DO, however, still get extremely frustrated by the RNG 99 times out of 100. Like many have said, maybe I get lucky the next time and someone else doesn't... I get that. I just think the code mechanism needs to be altered a little bit to reflect the current landscape of the game. What worked for the game 16 months ago does not still work now. New rules apply

This doesn't work for me. I am always on the bad luck end of things. It probably is my negative outlook as well. But my 5star draw percentage is probably at less than 10%. I was even unlucky enough to spend all my cp just before they upped the percentage. Really everything in the game is a gamble. From which characters you choose to level because we really don't have any idea which characters they will rebalance next.

Even when you hoard, it is still a game of chance, because the devs do not let you know ahead of time, and so you just blindly open your hoard or keep hoarding until the end of time. Hoarding is a horrible idea because it keeps you invested in a broken game. You keep playing not because it's fun because you've invest so much time and effort and you still have a very faint hope that it will improve due to your hoard. But when you open the hoard, you are disappointed because you now realize how small the percentages are and you wasted all this time hoarding to get almost nothing. Also, all the time you are hoarding, you could have opened those tokens for a chance at progress that may get you more progress because you can rank higher or hit higher progression.

Crnch73

dsds wrote:

This doesn't work for me. I am always on the bad luck end of things. It probably is my negative outlook as well. But my 5star draw percentage is probably at less than 10%. I was even unlucky enough to spend all my cp just before they upped the percentage. Really everything in the game is a gamble. From which characters you choose to level because we really don't have any idea which characters they will rebalance next.

Even when you hoard, it is still a game of chance, because the devs do not let you know ahead of time, and so you just blindly open your hoard or keep hoarding until the end of time. Hoarding is a horrible idea because it keeps you invested in a broken game. You keep playing not because it's fun because you've invest so much time and effort and you still have a very faint hope that it will improve due to your hoard. But when you open the hoard, you are disappointed because you now realize how small the percentages are and you wasted all this time hoarding to get almost nothing. Also, all the time you are hoarding, you could have opened those tokens for a chance at progress that may get you more progress because you can rank higher or hit higher progression.

I must be misunderstanding you then... what doesn't work for you? All I said was the reliance on RNG at the current state of the game is not working for the users. We "lose" at RNG too often, and the compensation for such a loss is pittance. We need to get a way to lessen the blow of "losing" at RNG. Either make CP/LT's/4+ star characters easier (or more fair) to get... Or find a new way to earn such characters. You could spend 8 hours a day on this game, play every day that way... and still end up with a roster no better than the next guy. for RNG to be such a cornerstone of this game, with all of the diluted tiers... the pure volume of tokens/CP or the odds need to increase.

veny

My three Prof Xs with 7/11/2 total strongly disagree

bbigler

veny wrote:

My three Prof Xs with 7/11/2 total strongly disagree

I have a professor X at 8/1/0, but it doesn't bother me.