Rewards don't feel rewarding.

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Comments

  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Ultimadan wrote:
    Ok I'll concede that my estimate on big boxes was a ways off. For what it's worth I haven't actually spent any of my crystals since opening 3 of the mythic packs. The packs everyone considers to be by far the best value offered so far (which I agree with!). And surely enough, opening them got me 3 dupes. The packs by far most likely to give some kind of progression still didn't despite only having somewhere around 10-15% of the total mythics. For my 1050 crystals, I got 10 quick battles worth of runes. Regardless, somewhere between 1 to 2 weeks is probably a better estimate of how quickly one can get a big box.

    Not even doing the minimum though? That's a completely unfair comment. I hit every event and get every progression reward. I hit every QB and get at least rank 150, sometimes higher if I have time. I'm still working on the back end of the story for the crystal rewards there but what more can I possibly be doing to progress? I don't have the time to grind for rank 1 in QB and I'm not in a top 10 coalition.

    I honestly feel as if I've hit a wall at the moment. With the RNG nature of progression, it could take 2 packs or 2000 packs before I ever find a new card to use and that's assuming the card is worth playing at all.

    I completely get that people are getting tired of all the drop rate complaints. I'd much rather be posting something positive about the game, or just lurking. But outside of dropping loads of money on the exclusive mythic bundles, sometimes it can just feel as if there's no real way to progress in this game.
    As a comparison, during the period that EM was the latest set (1.7.1 to 1.8.1, more or less 2 months), I got 8 mythics (including duplicates). Only 3 were obtained from purchasing Big Boxes (I opened 8 in the period), though 1 more was from purchasing the third option in one of those special sets they cycle (almost) every week. 1 was from being top 5 in an event and the other 3 came from all the various free booster packs we get through Daily Rewards, Events and 8-hour cycles.

    So I'd say if you continue to play and collect all the free boosters possible, you still have a decent chance of drawing into mythics. And hopefully they will be useful ones. Otherwise rare cards can help a lot of decks at least be competitive enough to hit top 100 in events.

    It's true that there is a lot of luck involved in advancing further in terms of your mythic collection unless you can get into one of the top coalitions to get the coalition mythic. I've a collector's streak in me but in this game I don't try to collect them all because like you said too much is dependent on luck. So I don't take it too seriously when I don't get the cards I'm hoping for.
  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
    Ohboy wrote:

    I do agree I was probably too harsh and apologise for my tone. But the complaints about drop rates wear on me, and I saw someone who wasn't even doing the minimum complaining about it, so I snapped. For what it's worth, I apologise.

    Dont apologize, just have some respect for the players who are speaking from their own experience this wasnt such a huge issue bufore 1.9 and now D3 gave a green light admitting that rates are lowered
    how ?
    They didnt have to say anything just give an illusion (which You have so easily bought) they have increased the number of packs You can get but made them so much worse creating this delusion that it will balance out eventually....

    Drop rate has dropped for big boxes and this will tell You anyone who was playing most of this year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4duJdeKTwHY
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ultimadan wrote:
    Ok I'll concede that my estimate on big boxes was a ways off. For what it's worth I haven't actually spent any of my crystals since opening 3 of the mythic packs. The packs everyone considers to be by far the best value offered so far (which I agree with!). And surely enough, opening them got me 3 dupes. The packs by far most likely to give some kind of progression still didn't despite only having somewhere around 10-15% of the total mythics. For my 1050 crystals, I got 10 quick battles worth of runes. Regardless, somewhere between 1 to 2 weeks is probably a better estimate of how quickly one can get a big box.

    Not even doing the minimum though? That's a completely unfair comment. I hit every event and get every progression reward. I hit every QB and get at least rank 150, sometimes higher if I have time. I'm still working on the back end of the story for the crystal rewards there but what more can I possibly be doing to progress? I don't have the time to grind for rank 1 in QB and I'm not in a top 10 coalition.

    I honestly feel as if I've hit a wall at the moment. With the RNG nature of progression, it could take 2 packs or 2000 packs before I ever find a new card to use and that's assuming the card is worth playing at all.

    I completely get that people are getting tired of all the drop rate complaints. I'd much rather be posting something positive about the game, or just lurking. But outside of dropping loads of money on the exclusive mythic bundles, sometimes it can just feel as if there's no real way to progress in this game.

    I based the not doing minimum comment on your prior comment on opening a box a month, which you too have just agreed was off.

    It's unfair true, but only because I now know your calculations were off as you just admitted.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    losdamianos wrote:

    Dont apologize, just have some respect for the players who are speaking from their own experience this wasnt such a huge issue bufore 1.9 and now D3 gave a green light admitting that rates are lowered
    how ?
    They didnt have to say anything just give an illusion (which You have so easily bought) they have increased the number of packs You can get but made them so much worse creating this delusion that it will balance out eventually....

    Drop rate has dropped for big boxes and this will tell You anyone who was playing most of this year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4duJdeKTwHY

    I can't believe I keep missing these major announcements and posts. Once again, not sarcastic, but could you please link me to the hard data on drop rates you referred to before, and now the official announcement t from d3go that they reduced the drop rates?
  • theram0324
    theram0324 Posts: 1 Just Dropped In
    So I am a new player and started 2 weeks ago. I kind of believe in spending so money on games you enjoy so as long as you do not go overboard. First thing I did was play for like 5 days and just enjoy. Then I dropped money to get the 3 mythic packs. My pulls was 1. Tyrant of Valakut, 2. Nahiri's Wrath, and 3. Gisela, the Broken Blade. I looked for a planeswalker that matched what I pulled and noticed Nahiri was a upcoming walker. I waited 5 days until she released and then brought her. I have 1 other mythic and have no idea how I got it. I must have pulled it in a pack and didn't even notice it and that's Kozilek's Return.
  • Salubri
    Salubri Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    Another reason the rewards don't feel rewarding is the ranking rewards and progression rewards in the event system. I personally think that if there is going to be a ranking system with rewards in the events, make it easier to get the progression rewards. I only get the top progression reward about half the time. It's not like the progression rewards are going to be a huge game changer for a player like the ranking rewards can be.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Salubri wrote:
    Another reason the rewards don't feel rewarding is the ranking rewards and progression rewards in the event system. I personally think that if there is going to be a ranking system with rewards in the events, make it easier to get the progression rewards. I only get the top progression reward about half the time. It's not like the progression rewards are going to be a huge game changer for a player like the ranking rewards can be.

    Progression rewards used to be something like 40% of maximum available points. But many people complained that it stopped too early, so now max progression is about 80%ish of total points?

    Can't have it both ways unfortunately. This is why you need to speak up when you see a suggestion you don't agree with. Devs see a popular suggestion with no opposition, and it becomes a no Brainer to consider it.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ohboy wrote:
    Progression rewards used to be something like 40% of maximum available points. But many people complained that it stopped too early, so now max progression is about 80%ish of total points?

    My perception was that the desired solution wasn't to make progression require more points, but to offer more progression rewards. I think EDHDad was the first to post that, though I might be wrong.

    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.

    The latter solution promotes collection growth for newcomers. The former solution **** it.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    madwren wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    Progression rewards used to be something like 40% of maximum available points. But many people complained that it stopped too early, so now max progression is about 80%ish of total points?

    My perception was that the desired solution wasn't to make progression require more points, but to offer more progression rewards. I think EDHDad was the first to post that, though I might be wrong.

    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.

    The latter solution promotes collection growth for newcomers. The former solution **** it.

    A) it would be naive to think that this wouldn't lead to the exact same complaints when some people can't hit the new max progression.

    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ohboy wrote:
    madwren wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    Progression rewards used to be something like 40% of maximum available points. But many people complained that it stopped too early, so now max progression is about 80%ish of total points?

    My perception was that the desired solution wasn't to make progression require more points, but to offer more progression rewards. I think EDHDad was the first to post that, though I might be wrong.

    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.

    The latter solution promotes collection growth for newcomers. The former solution **** it.

    A) it would be naive to think that this wouldn't lead to the exact same complaints when some people can't hit the new max progression.

    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.

    It would also be naive to think that people complaining about progression rewards stopping at 40% because they wanted their events to provide sustained impetus to participate would result in d3go doubling the amount of points needed for progression, but there you go.

    I agree that complaints would not stop, but that's the nature of any game that has a forum for player feedback. The presence of absence of complaints isn't a definitive statement on the efficacy of any implemented solution.

    Solutions will never eliminate complaints completely. However, effective solutions can lessen the amount and degree of them. The move to a delayed-node, 8-hour refresh system has worked wonders. Sure, some people still complain about how there's too long between games now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's largely been a positive change.
  • Salubri
    Salubri Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.

    I'm not asking for "more free stuff". I'm asking for the free stuff I used get but don't now because of the changes made in the event system.
    As I've stated before, if you're going to have a ranking system with rewards in an event, don't penalize those that don't have the strong decks or PWs by making the progression rewards worth most of the points in the ranking system. All that does is create a larger gap between top players and newcomers or those that can't spend (exaggeration) 8+ hours a day playing this game.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Salubri wrote:
    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.

    I'm not asking for "more free stuff". I'm asking for the free stuff I used get but don't now because of the changes made in the event system.
    As I've stated before, if you're going to have a ranking system with rewards in an event, don't penalize those that don't have the strong decks or PWs by making the progression rewards worth most of the points in the ranking system. All that does is create a larger gap between top players and newcomers or those that can't spend (exaggeration) 8+ hours a day playing this game.

    That was really in response to madwren's suggestion that d3go give more progression rewards.
  • huntly
    huntly Posts: 99
    Ohboy wrote:
    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.
    I feel like I'm missing something. Isn't the complaint that it's the same free stuff but harder to get? Or are you referring to the fact that there are more opportunities at getting free stuff because there are more events? Not trying to be sarcastic btw. It just feels to me like less free stuff because I don't have the free time to devote to getting 80% often.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    huntly wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.
    I feel like I'm missing something. Isn't the complaint that it's the same free stuff but harder to get? Or are you referring to the fact that there are more opportunities at getting free stuff because there are more events? Not trying to be sarcastic btw. It just feels to me like less free stuff because I don't have the free time to devote to getting 80% often.

    It's in the part I quoted that you truncated away. He's asking why the devs didn't give more rewards to fill up progression towards maximum points, instead of shifting maximum points closer to max progression like they did.
    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.
  • Ampmp11
    Ampmp11 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    madwren wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    madwren wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    Progression rewards used to be something like 40% of maximum available points. But many people complained that it stopped too early, so now max progression is about 80%ish of total points?

    My perception was that the desired solution wasn't to make progression require more points, but to offer more progression rewards. I think EDHDad was the first to post that, though I might be wrong.

    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.

    The latter solution promotes collection growth for newcomers. The former solution **** it.

    A) it would be naive to think that this wouldn't lead to the exact same complaints when some people can't hit the new max progression.

    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.

    It would also be naive to think that people complaining about progression rewards stopping at 40% because they wanted their events to provide sustained impetus to participate would result in d3go doubling the amount of points needed for progression, but there you go.

    I agree that complaints would not stop, but that's the nature of any game that has a forum for player feedback. The presence of absence of complaints isn't a definitive statement on the efficacy of any implemented solution.

    Solutions will never eliminate complaints completely. However, effective solutions can lessen the amount and degree of them. The move to a delayed-node, 8-hour refresh system has worked wonders. Sure, some people still complain about how there's too long between games now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's largely been a positive change.

    Has it really been a positive change, because to me it just seems like the game is dying. There's less to do and talk about and these forums / slack are becoming ghost towns.
  • huntly
    huntly Posts: 99
    Ohboy wrote:
    huntly wrote:
    Ohboy wrote:
    B) when we're given some free stuff, it's somewhat in bad taste to ask for more free stuff.
    I feel like I'm missing something. Isn't the complaint that it's the same free stuff but harder to get? Or are you referring to the fact that there are more opportunities at getting free stuff because there are more events? Not trying to be sarcastic btw. It just feels to me like less free stuff because I don't have the free time to devote to getting 80% often.

    It's in the part I quoted that you truncated away. He's asking why the devs didn't give more rewards to fill up progression towards maximum points, instead of shifting maximum points closer to max progression like they did.
    In other words, not 6 rewards across 200 ribbons being changed to 6 rewards across 400 ribbons, but instead having additional progression tiers created so that from 201-400, you could pick up additional rewards.
    I saw that he asked for more free stuff, I meant I confused on the first half of your statement. I think I'm assuming wrong that you ment new free stuff.

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