** Thor (Marvel NOW!) ** [PRE 2014-01]

24

Comments

  • Skyedyne wrote:
    There is now not a single battle that you don't face an 85 Thor, because he really is too good of a character. True, he is the one of the first 2 stars you obtain and level. However, he never drops off even after obtaining other covers, whereas others loss usefulness as you upgrade team comp. Alas, you still always see Thor in nearly every team comp.

    In the mid-game, sure. Once you progress beyond 2*s then you stop seeing him much. Even when I was still using mostly 2*s I stopped using him in favor of Wolverine because Wolverine provides a MUCH faster kill rate since you don't need to use health packs. This was before the C Storm change though.

    I used Thor during The Hunt because of the boost, but in cases where he's not boosted I don't think I've used him in 3 weeks or so.
  • Zathrus wrote:
    Skyedyne wrote:
    There is now not a single battle that you don't face an 85 Thor, because he really is too good of a character. True, he is the one of the first 2 stars you obtain and level. However, he never drops off even after obtaining other covers, whereas others loss usefulness as you upgrade team comp. Alas, you still always see Thor in nearly every team comp.

    In the mid-game, sure. Once you progress beyond 2*s then you stop seeing him much. Even when I was still using mostly 2*s I stopped using him in favor of Wolverine because Wolverine provides a MUCH faster kill rate since you don't need to use health packs. This was before the C Storm change though.

    I used Thor during The Hunt because of the boost, but in cases where he's not boosted I don't think I've used him in 3 weeks or so.

    In the NHB and LR that where up recently I don't think I fought a team without an 85 Thor. It's insane and very, very boring.
  • Personally, I'd rather have more characters behave like Thor than nerf him in any way.

    In other words, the focus should be on fixing characters that don't work rather than nerfing the ones that do.
  • Toxicadam wrote:
    Personally, I'd rather have more characters behave like Thor than nerf him in any way.

    In other words, the focus should be on fixing characters that don't work rather than nerfing the ones that do.

    My friend and I were just discussing this as well. It's either make it so he doesn't work as well with other characters, which is kinda asinine considering it's a team building game, or make it so other characters are brought up to par and worth a second look at in making them a team member instead.

    As it stands, buffing characters for tourneys and events is nice, and encourages leveling and experimentation, but ultimately all that happens afterwards is falling back to the actual strong team you play with all along, which more often than not involves a high level, if not max, Thor.
  • Thor is strong because the AI is awesome on defense with Thor. His offense is respectable but nothing similar characters can't do, and Wolverine lasts longer in most practical situations. Now that I learned to stop getting into cascade wars with the AI, Thor is actually quite easy to shutdown.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Thor is strong because the AI is awesome on defense with Thor. His offense is respectable but nothing similar characters can't do, and Wolverine lasts longer in most practical situations. Now that I learned to stop getting into cascade wars with the AI, Thor is actually quite easy to shutdown.
    How do you do that?
  • In general, unless your offense is so potent that you kill off the enemy team before they can get anything meaningful done, you should play to prevent cascade wars because the AI eventually wins every cascade war (it knows the outcome of every cascade, while you do not). Thor just happens to have a ton of HP which gives the AI more time to use its huge advantage in cascade wars, and that once Thor has a lot of AP his moves are almost self-sustaining, and this works in the strength of the AI, who is a master at racking up insane AP totals.

    This means as soon as the AI starts making ordinary match 3s (no cascade), you try to match as close to the top rows/columns as reasonable unless there is some significant immediate gain. For example, if you see the AI match 3 enviornmental tiles, and you see that a match 3 red was always available at the bottom, study that position extra carefully. Often that'd be a move that immediately leads to the AI getting a match 4 or better, which is why the AI passed that move up. If Thor is with Juggernaut, you should seriously reconsider another opponent or use some boosts, because a board scrambling move like Unstoppable Crash almost invariably leads to a crazy chain by the AI. Note that this team wouldn't be very useful for you, since you do not know where all the cascades are on the board, but the AI does.
  • You are giving the AI way too much credit.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thor just got a little bit better.

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1575
    - Thor has noticed that his Thunder Strike was striking Green tiles when this is plainly an excessive use of power. He has remedied this and will no longer change Green tiles to Green tiles.

    So Thunder Strike will now more reliably generate green.
  • Seriously, if I have to fight another L85 Thor I'm going to claw my eyes out with a spatula.

    It's like going to a 90s arcade, stepping up to SF2, and playing that one kid who does nothing but throw hadoukens (Ryu/Ken's fireball, for the unitiated) over and over and over again. And then realizing he has infinite quarters and he's the only one in the arcade and his mom has given him a case of Coke and a lunchbox full of ritalin.

    Please, please, could one of the devs nerf the God of Dunder solely so we can have a bit more variety in PvP? I will send you my firstborn or my sole functioning kidney, whichever you prefer.


    I would love to see one of the worthless characters like Loki get a third power that does something like reverse the damage (or absorb the AP) of cascade combos, specifically to MESS WITH THOR. Then anybody that chooses to use Ye Olde Goldylocks would face an equally immeasurably annoying counter.


    Feel free to sound off if you'd like to join my I Hate Thor club (heretofore known as 'The Thor Loothers')


    (Actually, a more apt SF2 comparison would be Guile's Sonic Boom into Flash Kick, since that was the ideal endless cheap combo, but I was trying to make my post title work)
  • qtquazar wrote:
    Seriously, if I have to fight another L85 Thor I'm going to claw my eyes out with a spatula.

    It's like going to a 90s arcade, stepping up to SF2, and playing that one kid who does nothing but throw hadoukens (Ryu/Ken's fireball, for the unitiated) over and over and over again. And then realizing he has infinite quarters and he's the only one in the arcade and his mom has given him a case of Coke and a lunchbox full of ritalin.

    Please, please, could one of the devs nerf the God of Dunder solely so we can have a bit more variety in PvP? I will send you my firstborn or my sole functioning kidney, whichever you prefer.


    I would love to see one of the worthless characters like Loki get a third power that does something like reverse the damage (or absorb the AP) of cascade combos, specifically to MESS WITH THOR. Then anybody that chooses to use Ye Olde Goldylocks would face an equally immeasurably annoying counter.


    Feel free to sound off if you'd like to join my I Hate Thor club (heretofore known as 'The Thor Loothers')


    (Actually, a more apt SF2 comparison would be Guile's Sonic Boom into Flash Kick, since that was the ideal endless cheap combo, but I was trying to make my post title work)

    I admire the effort with the title and I was going to try and honor that with something equally as clever but it's late and I'm off my game so I'll just say this:

    Ragnarok
  • @OP

    Coolstorybro.

    Just kidding. Seriously, nerfing is not the solution. Nerfing is NEVER the solution. I have to agree, Thor is one of the top end of the 2star chars. Quite OP in fact. However, instead of nerfing him, they should focus on making the other characters more powerful. For instance, they can reduce the cost of Captain America's skills, or give Moonstone some skills preferably worth a damn. And don't get me started on Bagman.

    Nerfing is the most tinykitty idiotic stupid tinykitty thing to do, ALWAYS. Nerfing solves no problems, only creates new ones. Nerfing is a half-assed act of a pathetic excuse of a pathetic attempt to fix a problem that they don't fully understand.

    Balancing is not about taking one character far more powerful than the rest, and kicking him in the jewels until he becomes impotent. You want balance, you power up the other characters until they are worth a damn. If Thor is more powerful than Captain America or Moonstone, you power up those characters. You DON'T "impotenize" Thor.

    Half the time, nerfing is chosen. Why? Because it requires much less effort. The end result is that it creates more problems than it solves. Instead of the character being balanced, the Skill in question becomes hideously underpowered until it becomes a trash Skill, placed there for the sake of a level cap requirement.

    Don't believe me?

    Exhibit A
    Loki's Purple Skill.

    Exhibit B
    Classic Storm's Yellow Skill.

    Nuff said.
  • Doth mother know you wearest her drapes?
  • First of all I think bagman is somewhat of a joke character.
    A possible solution is mabey to buff random character in tornaments excluding the high end characters, buff characters such as cap, obw, mag (marvel now). Characters that people want to use, that are rather underpowred. Another solution could be to introduce multiple 2* characters to increase variety.
    The reason that charcters such as thor, storm, wolvie are so popular is because characters is because characters don't have weaknesses so there is no downside to picking characters and no way to counter them so there are always going to be common characters.
  • While sometimes nerfing is the answer this is certainly not one of them. Your REAL problem is that the prologue gives out 4 2**. Bag (joke), storm, thor, wolverine. So ppl are instantly told to play with them because its their only 2** covers. Of those 4 thor is the only "normal" damage dealer. Wolverine, also very highly used, is mildly quirky due to strike tiles, and storm WAS nerfed. There also just isn't a whole lot of 2** variety yet. Either the 2** are harder to.get (magneto) or.they aren't very good (cap).

    You have to remember that not everyone has 3*** at a high enough lvl to use and that 2** is the cutoff between "I play/pay a lot" and "I don't." With thor being one of what ...7-8 available 2** and one being a complete throw away in bagman its no wonder so many teams have thor on it.

    Ragnarok has no such excuse for his "lack of team diversity" as no 3*** are truly handed to you. That is an example of a balance issue. Though I will say thor is hands down the most powerful 2** atm and is op when only compared with 2**. I like him though because he gives ppl om the 2** lvl a chance to move up to the 3*** because he can compete with 3*** characters and I think that is a good thing.

    Also, zangief is more apt example. High damage, high health, easy to use, and you saw a lot of him in sf4 because of that despite not generally being the most liked character. Thor is a mix of ryu and zangief I guess.
  • I've not been playing much modern Street Fighters lately. But I personally tried to avoid using Zangief because of the, you know, trying to activate 360 degree on the joystick up close without accidentally jumping. Some do that naturally, some had to struggle.

    SF4 is so diverse, so many characters, so many styles. But in my local arcade, I'm pretty sure Zangief is not among the most popular. It's difficult enough for him to avoid projectiles, and fast characters have a way of keeping far away from him.
  • Thor is the most powerful 2-star character and still one of the game's top dogs.

    However, he is also the only such top-tier character available for free in the prologue.

    Nerf him and you nerf newbies. Nerf newbies and they can't compete and lose interest, player population dwindles, game goes away.

    Thor needs to stay strong for newbies to be able to compete and stick around long enough to get some heroic tokens and unlock 3-stars, and presumably pay some money to D3P for tokens or HP. I came up this exact way and ran Thor for the longest time until I got my hands on our old buddy Ragnarok.

    For the record, this is also why I was opposed to the C. Storm yellow nerf, but D3P clearly isn't budging on that one.
  • I personally say instead of nerfing, they should focus on powering up those underpowered characters. How many people do you see using a 85 Moonstone?
  • mechgouki wrote:
    I personally say instead of nerfing, they should focus on powering up those underpowered characters. How many people do you see using a 85 Moonstone?

    Exactly this.
    Infact some characters with really minor tweaks would become playable. (Modern hawkeye for example remove timers and he's actually half decent)
  • Magneto (marvel now) needs a small buff, he would be a good common character if he wasn't so slow/costly.
This discussion has been closed.