There's a discrepancy in Progression Rewards

bbigler

I can easily hit the max progression reward in PvE, but not even close in PvP. The best I can do in PvP is about 650 pts, and then shield for a little bit more later. So, I can very easily get the 4* cover in PvE but I can't in PvP, and that's why I think there's something wrong here. 3 months ago I was fighting with only 3*s, but now I have a few 4*s that are usable. I have noticed that I get attacked less when fighting with 4*s in PvP, but I still can't get to 900 points for the 4* cover.

It just seems like something is really wrong if it's easy to get the 4* progression reward in PvE but impossible for me in PvP. I think a lot of people are in my same boat. My only hope is to wait until I have more 4* champs to fight with. For reference, my strongest 4* characters are below:

LvL 272 Nick Fury (5/5/3)
LvL 264 Star Lord (4/5/4)
LvL 220 Invisible Woman (5/3/5)
LvL 205 XF Wolverine (5/3/4)
LvL 200 Red Hulk (4/5/1)
LvL 200 Antman (3/3/4)
LvL 200 Hulkbuster (3/5/2)
LvL 160 Thoress (4/5/1)
LvL 147 XF Deadpool (2/5/4)

I have a well running 4* Champ assembly line, so it shouldn't take forever. Plus, I've been hoarding CP because I need more ISO than 4* covers right now. Can anyone give me hope that my PvP experience will get better?

Jabrony_Geoff

bbigler wrote:

I can easily hit the max progression reward in PvE, but not even close in PvP.

I have noticed that I get attacked less when fighting with 4*s in PvP, but I still can't get to 900 points for the 4* cover.

It just seems like something is really wrong if it's easy to get the 4* progression reward in PvE but impossible for me in PvP. I think a lot of people are in my same boat. My only hope is to wait until I have more 4* champs to fight with. For reference, my strongest 4* characters are below:

LvL 272 Nick Fury (5/5/3)
LvL 264 Star Lord (4/5/4)
LvL 220 Invisible Woman (5/3/5)
LvL 205 XF Wolverine (5/3/4)
LvL 200 Red Hulk (4/5/1)
LvL 200 Antman (3/3/4)
LvL 200 Hulkbuster (3/5/2)
LvL 160 Thoress (4/5/1)
LvL 147 XF Deadpool (2/5/4)

I have a well running 4* Champ assembly line, so it shouldn't take forever. Plus, I've been hoarding CP because I need more ISO than 4* covers right now. Can anyone give me hope that my PvP experience will get better?

I'm no expert but Ive noticed three things.
Your 4* roster isn't strong enough yet.
If i see you when I'm skipping you are next on the list.

Secondly you don't seem to be shield hopping effectively. There is a plethora of posts telling you how to shield hop. Seek these out.

...and thirdly, if I'm correct these are the top 4*s covers in the game.

Teen Jean.
Hulkbuster Ironman
Ice man.
Peggy Carter.
X force Deadpool
Red Hulk
Nuclear Cyclops
X-23
Lady Thor

Getting the above championed and using them when boosted will make the 900 target easier.

JVReal

I see it this way... with PVE, you have to push for multiple days to get the top progression or the 4*. It involves multiple clears a day, a total of several hours. You pay with your time.

With PVP, you can spend about an hour getting to your float point, then you have to spend HP to shield and start the process of shield hopping to your goal. Each hop lasting about 3-5 minutes. Since you cannot place in PVP with time in lieu of HP... its for the spenders, where PVE is for the F2P group.

It's time or money. They are equal to me because they are both investments of something of value. That seems to be the way it breaks down to me personally. Therefore I have veered away from PVP for a bit, and have just spent the minimal time necessary to reach max progression in PVE. I cannot hit the 4* without shield hopping, and I have no desire to do that, so instead of that, I invest time in PVE. If I have the desire to spend some more time while my nodes count down... I'll shoot for the first CP progression in PVP, but no longer shield unless I happen to be within 3 hours of end.

bbigler

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

I'm no expert but Ive noticed three things.
Your 4* roster isn't strong enough yet.
If i see you when I'm skipping you are next on the list.

Secondly you don't seem to be shield hopping effectively. There is a plethora of posts telling you how to shield hop. Seek these out.

...and thirdly, if I'm correct these are the top 4*s covers in the game.

Teen Jean.
Hulkbuster Ironman
Ice man.
Peggy Carter.
X force Deadpool
Red Hulk
Nuclear Cyclops
X-23
Lady Thor

Getting the above championed and using them when boosted will make the 900 target easier.

My point is that there's a discrepancy in getting 4* covers from PvE and PvP. I realize my 4* roster isn't strong enough yet for 900 pts, but why is the 4* cover at 900 pts in the first place? I also realize which 4* characters are best, but I don't have that many covers for Peggy, Iceman, X-23, Tean Jean or Cyclops. Each have about 6-8 covers.

Jabrony_Geoff

bbigler wrote:

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

I'm no expert but Ive noticed three things.
Your 4* roster isn't strong enough yet.
If i see you when I'm skipping you are next on the list.

Secondly you don't seem to be shield hopping effectively. There is a plethora of posts telling you how to shield hop. Seek these out.

...and thirdly, if I'm correct these are the top 4*s covers in the game.

Teen Jean.
Hulkbuster Ironman
Ice man.
Peggy Carter.
X force Deadpool
Red Hulk
Nuclear Cyclops
X-23
Lady Thor

Getting the above championed and using them when boosted will make the 900 target easier.

My point is that there's a discrepancy in getting 4* covers from PvE and PvP. I realize my 4* roster isn't strong enough yet for 900 pts, but why is the 4* cover at 900 pts in the first place? I also realize which 4* characters are best, but I don't have that many covers for Peggy, Iceman, X-23, Tean Jean or Cyclops. Each have about 6-8 covers.

I agree there is a discrepancy but to soften the blow you have 10cp at 575 points in PVP.
This wasn't there before and I welcome it.

I only attempt the 900 number if I have a championed boosted character of the week be that 4* or 3*.

Without using the boosted characters it is almost impossible.

Makes Me think the developers have ruined the game by removing cupcakes.
Before I would always go for the 4* at 1000 knowing cupcakes would help me along the way. Hell if I got lucky I could even reach 1200 and 25cp.

Now, I just don't bother because you get swiftly beat down by the big boys shortly after 900.

Jabrony_Geoff

mpqr7 wrote:

[omitted]

Oooooooffffff...that's harsh but true.

*Removed Insult From Quote*
-Brigby

bigwhoop

Hitting 900 in PVP currently is all about having top tier 4* champions that is boosted for the week. For the current week, having champion 4thor makes all the difference.

Whenever I have least 1 top tier 4* boosted champion, I can hit 900 with no shield or 1 shield. However, on the week where I have no 4* champion boosted, it becomes almost impossible to hit 900.

Now hitting 1200 is in an entirely different category. I haven't got there since they removed cupcakes.

cyineedsn

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

...and thirdly, if I'm correct these are the top 4*s covers in the game.

Teen Jean.
Hulkbuster Ironman
Ice man.
Peggy Carter.
X force Deadpool
Red Hulk
Nuclear Cyclops
X-23
Lady Thor

Getting the above championed and using them when boosted will make the 900 target easier.

Good list, although I would take X-23 out of there. She's not bad, she's just not at the same level of all-purpose usefulness as the rest of that list.

firethorne

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

I'm no expert but Ive noticed three things.
Your 4* roster isn't strong enough yet.
If i see you when I'm skipping you are next on the list.

...and thirdly, if I'm correct these are the top 4*s covers in the game.

Teen Jean.
Hulkbuster Ironman
Ice man.
Peggy Carter.
X force Deadpool
Red Hulk
Nuclear Cyclops
X-23
Lady Thor

Getting the above championed and using them when boosted will make the 900 target easier.

bigwhoop wrote:

Hitting 900 in PVP currently is all about having top tier 4* champions that is boosted for the week.

While I don't disagree, I hope you realize you're simply pointing out things that make the OP's case. The PvP game is a ridiculous catch-22. In order to climb to the 4* progression reward, you are required to have already championed all of the best 4*'s. It makes no sense.

broll

I'm in the same boat. 650 is usually about my line as well. Even with a violent push I've never once hit 800. Though as others have said, I recognize that PvP priorities stronger rosters, but should it?

GurlBYE

The 3 star is in a ridiculous place too lol.

People have been talking about this for ages.

notamutant

Why should the PvP reward be as easy to get as PvE? Also, it IS easy, or easier than the PvE 4 star, for many players. I can spend 1 hour to get 900 points in PvP during the right boosted week. It would take like 5 hours of playing PvE if not more to get the 4 star cover there. You just have a weaker roster. PvE has scaling to help those with weak rosters out. PvP, while it has MMR, that doesn't entirely remove the fact you are COMPETING against other people who often have stronger characters than you. Of course it will be harder for you. Would you go play an MMORPG and complain that you can't win a high end competitive PvP match with a new character just because you can beat a dungeon with the same rewards as PvP on that same character? You just need to understand and accept you are not "ready" for high level PvP yet. It sucks, but that is the reality. You probably never will be top level without spending tons of money, since catching up in this game as a free to play player is almost impossible.

Punter1

Oh! Did someone post something as me that I didn't know about??!? This sounds exactly like my experience. I'm grinding out PVE when I have time for guaranteed rewards. Have been hitting max prog in most events so it's progress but very slow for the amount of effort.

PVP I was hitting 700ish for a bit, more recently as soon as I hit 650 it's been 2 steps forward, 1 back so I shield and hide. Shield hopping I did many moons ago, but now seems to be a fruitless task. I can aim to get 2 fights max, but that wouldn't get me to 800 never mind 900 or bump me up in the standings, so it's spending HP just for spending HP.

I've a solid 2* farm working, I have all 3* champed, except Strange. So my ISO production is good. All 4* are rostered in various states from 1 cover (Howard and Drax) to 13 (IW & Carnage, woohoo...)

My "useable" 4* - very loose as really only the top few are and rely on being boosted:
Thoress - 210 - 4/2/5
JG - 209 - 4/2/4
Thing - 200 - 4/4/4
Peggy - 200 - 3/4/4
Iceman - 188 - 2/4/5
Cyclops - 188 - 2/4/4
IMHB - 172 - 4/1/3
Antman - 168 - 3/2/3
XFDP - 168 - 3/2/3

I've ISO to bump some of them up, but with covers missing they're not as powerful. I'm also trying to level a few characters evenly as I don't have that one stud character that's worth champing and relying on yet.

There's such a limited way to get 4* covers. Hitting top in events is out of reach as is the 900 in PVP, so it's steady dribble of CP for random token draws and a cover from PVE prog once or twice a week.

Right now I'm running to stand still!

Just posting in agreement, not sure I can further or add to the discussion!

I wonder if some tweaking needs done on the MMR, it seems all too often that those with significantly better rosters than I, can come along and plow through my team in seconds sucking my valuable points while I've no hope of retaliation. Meanwhile after 600, my q is filled with similar rosters for less than 30 points and the odd out of reach match for 40.

carrion_pigeons

Progress in this game is measured in inches, not miles.

I basically treat the list of rewards at the top end of play as a little joke the designers play. Some tiny percentage of the playerbase can compete for that stuff; the rest of us fight over 500 Iso and a handful of Elite tokens.

The reason the rewards are at punishingly high level is because it creates a very strung out degree of progression at the high end of play, which makes it more rewarding for people to whale. Their F2P business model depends on this. If they made it easy to progress so that players all hit the "end" at a similar power level, then PvP would be based too much on matchups and random luck, as opposed to things that can be sold, like levels and covers.

So I don't really bother thinking of progression as a value prospect. I just log into the game and play until I'm not having fun anymore, and then I quit.

bbigler

bigwhoop wrote:

Hitting 900 in PVP currently is all about having top tier 4* champions that is boosted for the week. For the current week, having champion 4thor makes all the difference.

Whenever I have least 1 top tier 4* boosted champion, I can hit 900 with no shield or 1 shield. However, on the week where I have no 4* champion boosted, it becomes almost impossible to hit 900.

Now hitting 1200 is in an entirely different category. I haven't got there since they removed cupcakes.

Forgive me, but what are cupcakes? I've heard the term many times but haven't pieced together exactly what that is.. Some kind of easy team match up?

ClydeFrog76

mpqr7 wrote:

[omitted]

Get your hand off it.

*Removed Insult From Quote*
-Brigby

bbigler

firethorne wrote:

While I don't disagree, I hope you realize you're simply pointing out things that make the OP's case. The PvP game is a ridiculous catch-22. In order to climb to the 4* progression reward, you are required to have already championed all of the best 4*'s. It makes no sense.

Exactly! It's a catch-22. If it wasn't for PvE, I wouldn't make much progress in this game. I'm just starting to champion 4*s, so PvP is starting to become more playable.

GurlBYE

notamutant wrote:

Why should the PvP reward be as easy to get as PvE? Also, it IS easy, or easier than the PvE 4 star, for many players. I can spend 1 hour to get 900 points in PvP during the right boosted week. It would take like 5 hours of playing PvE if not more to get the 4 star cover there. You just have a weaker roster. PvE has scaling to help those with weak rosters out. PvP, while it has MMR, that doesn't entirely remove the fact you are COMPETING against other people who often have stronger characters than you. Of course it will be harder for you. Would you go play an MMORPG and complain that you can't win a high end competitive PvP match with a new character just because you can beat a dungeon with the same rewards as PvP on that same character? You just need to understand and accept you are not "ready" for high level PvP yet. It sucks, but that is the reality. You probably never will be top level without spending tons of money, since catching up in this game as a free to play player is almost impossible.

top 20 of a 500 person bracket isn't many players.


how do you propose people get a stronger roster then?
better rewards right?

So people don't deserve good rewards because there are stronger rosters. (also everything you're arguing about competition is what placement is for.)

No one is asking you to restate the facts to knock someone elses opinion down just because but to provoke change or state an opinion on said change.

Discussions here hit dead ends because people seem to be more interested in stating facts as we all know them instead of understanding what the topic is proposing.

it isn't enough to read it but to understand it, and to critically use that information to present new ideas.

bigwhoop

firethorne wrote:

bigwhoop wrote:

Hitting 900 in PVP currently is all about having top tier 4* champions that is boosted for the week.

While I don't disagree, I hope you realize you're simply pointing out things that make the OP's case. The PvP game is a ridiculous catch-22. In order to climb to the 4* progression reward, you are required to have already championed all of the best 4*'s. It makes no sense.

At the beginning you can't expect to hit 900 all the time. 4Thor was 1 of my first 4* champion. At that time (March 2016), I can hit 1000 to grab the extra targeted 4* cover very easily when she is boosted. But other weeks, it is a struggle to hit even 800. Slowly, you get another 4* max-covered and championed through PVP and PVE. Now, you will have 2 weeks in the rotation where you have boosted 4* champions. Then 3 weeks, 4 weeks...... Eventually, you have boosted champion(s) every week.

The point is that progression gets easier and easier once you have more and more 4* champions. From March until now, I managed to get 27 4* championed using the above method, so it is definitely doable.

bbigler

notamutant wrote:

Why should the PvP reward be as easy to get as PvE? Also, it IS easy, or easier than the PvE 4 star, for many players. I can spend 1 hour to get 900 points in PvP during the right boosted week. It would take like 5 hours of playing PvE if not more to get the 4 star cover there. You just have a weaker roster. PvE has scaling to help those with weak rosters out. PvP, while it has MMR, that doesn't entirely remove the fact you are COMPETING against other people who often have stronger characters than you. Of course it will be harder for you. Would you go play an MMORPG and complain that you can't win a high end competitive PvP match with a new character just because you can beat a dungeon with the same rewards as PvP on that same character? You just need to understand and accept you are not "ready" for high level PvP yet. It sucks, but that is the reality. You probably never will be top level without spending tons of money, since catching up in this game as a free to play player is almost impossible.

First, I wouldn't say that I'm a free-to-play player. I've spent about $200 total in HP to roster 105 characters and I keep my VIP going. Second, I've noticed that my progress is faster than many other players, so it is possible to catch up, although it would take a year to do it.

Third, my roster is not weak given the number of days I've played. Many players on this forum are past 1000 days and I'm at 549 days. I started playing this game since the beginning, meaning November 2013. Because of the time hoard of this game, I've quit for months and then came back, quit again and then came back. This is my 4th period of playing, so I've seen the entire development of this game and many of my days were spent well before all the bonuses and rewards that we have now; back when 3* progression was as slow as 4* progression is now. There was a time in 2014 when I could hit #1 in PvP, that's right, #1. But because I've quit repeatedly, I've lost ground again and again.

CT1888

In my experience in the current way of things, when I have a top tier 4* boosted, 900 is generally a breeze.
When I don't have a top tier boosted/any champs, it's still doable, but still takes having top tier teams. It's even doable without shields, but it needs a very fast team, possibly boosts (+2r/y, +1 all, one yellow match and Thor/Ironman is off and running) and getting the right time (my best climbing times are generally when most of America is either asleep or in work for example).
The other thing I've been known to do on my final hop for 900 is line up monster 5* team, +2 p/b, +2all, Deadpool & Scarlet Witch and swiftly mega whale the spit out of them.
Join pvp early, and when you have health packs to spare start taking on beefy boosted teams and learn how to beat them quickly with what you have available. Save up some Cp and buy a cover or two to max out a top tier character (but surely it's a waste to use it in this way?? Poppycock! If it allows you to win more 4* covers it becomes cost neutral, and if the game is mor fun for it, win!)