Why is support removal 8 mana in green but 3 mana in red?

alextfish

I'm really excited for Kaladesh. But I'm very disappointed to see the set continuing the trend of having green's support removal massively overpriced compared to red's. Appetite for the Unnatural is 10 mana, Creeping Mold is 8, and white gets Fragmentize again at 8 mana. Red decks still get to use two different 3-mana support killers: Demolish and Smash to Smithereens.

I don't like power creep, but I'd forgive it if it was getting the power level of green's support removal up to equal with the existing power level of red's. Heck, I'd be happy to see Demolish and Smash errataed up to 4 or even 5 mana if the green and white equivalents could be cheapened at the same time.

This makes sense both from an MtG colour-pie POV - green is meant to be the best colour at destroying artifacts, and red isn't meant to be destroying enchantments at all - and just for the sake of MTGPQ playability. 8 mana is a horrible amount to be investing to take out something that's often cheaper than that.

buscemi

Because if every color had the same strengths and weaknesses this game wouldn't be half as interesting.

Ohboy

I haven't played mtg for a while now.

Green's best at destroying artifacts now? I thought it was red.

I'm sure it exists, but I can't actually think of a green spell that destroys artifacts.

buscemi

Ohboy wrote:

I haven't played mtg for a while now.

Green's best at destroying artifacts now? I thought it was red.

I'm sure it exists, but I can't actually think of a green spell that destroys artifacts.

They shifted the color pie a while ago... white kills enchantments, red artifacts, and green both.

One of white's early signature cards, Disenchant, has been color shifted to green where it's now called Naturalize: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

Rootbreaker

There are a lot of green spells that destroy artifacts. Some of the more reprinted ones are naturalize and creeping mold.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Searc ... ced&text=+[artifact]+[destroy]&color=+[G]

Supports in Magic Puzzle Quest cover both artifacts and enchantments, as well as lands.

Red in paper magic has almost nothing that can remove enchantments, but is #1 for artifact and land destruction. Green is the best at spells that destroy enchantments and artifacts.

alextfish

Absolutely. Black shouldn't be able to destroy supports except by making you discard them (or matching them in the normal way).

But green? Green is the best at destroying both artifacts and enchantments. Has been since Naturalize was deliberately printed as a "correction" to Disenchant, in 2002. In paper Magic, green gets Oxidize where red has to cope with Crush or occasionally Smelt. Green is the colour that should best be able to destroy supports most cheaply.

I'm not asking for it to get Demolish's useful 3x3 block destruction; that's red's thing. But green should at least be able to kill supports as efficiently as red.

(Anguished Unmaking is a significant colour pie violation in MTGPQ because of the way MtG gold cards (which *need both* colours) count as hybrid in MTGPQ (which work with *either* colour).)

Ohboy

buscemi wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

I haven't played mtg for a while now.

Green's best at destroying artifacts now? I thought it was red.

I'm sure it exists, but I can't actually think of a green spell that destroys artifacts.

They shifted the color pie a while ago... white kills enchantments, red artifacts, and green both.

One of white's early signature cards, Disenchant, has been color shifted to green where it's now called Naturalize: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

That's a pretty big shift. I should go play some mtg again.

nexus13

Their translations of these cards really don't make any sense (smash to smithereens changed from doing damage to the controller of the target, normally your opponent to doing damage to the caster). I don't know why supports weren't given subtypes, enchantment, artifact, land. Then the cards could have been translated directly. Smash to smithereens would destroy only artifact subtype supports while demolish would destroy land or artifact types. It would also preserve the color pie to some degree. On top of that I don't know why you can't target with any of the support killers, that will really be a pain with fabricate support on top of clues making other supports more difficult to hit.

malafein

nexus13 wrote:

Their translations of these cards really don't make any sense (smash to smithereens changed from doing damage to the controller of the target, normally your opponent to doing damage to the caster). I don't know why supports weren't given subtypes, enchantment, artifact, land. Then the cards could have been translated directly. Smash to smithereens would destroy only artifact subtype supports while demolish would destroy land or artifact types. It would also preserve the color pie to some degree. On top of that I don't know why you can't target with any of the support killers, that will really be a pain with fabricate support on top of clues making other supports more difficult to hit.

Keep in mind, it's a different medium, and it's also Puzzle Quest. Being a different game, it doesn't necessarily need translate over directly. It's more important that it be fun, balanced, and interesting. So, some things will work better on paper than on a mobile game, and vise-versa.

It would be nice to be able to target supports, but that would drastically effect the balance of things (for better or worse, I don't know).

Steeme

At least Appetite for Unnatural does something different. Creeping Mold is just another Reclaiming Vines. It's basically a dupe.

Root Out is still superior for green in my books so I don't see myself using any of the other green support removal cards. When is it a good idea to run more than one unless you're playing some specific story mode or event encounter?

wereotter

malafein wrote:

nexus13 wrote:

Their translations of these cards really don't make any sense (smash to smithereens changed from doing damage to the controller of the target, normally your opponent to doing damage to the caster). I don't know why supports weren't given subtypes, enchantment, artifact, land. Then the cards could have been translated directly. Smash to smithereens would destroy only artifact subtype supports while demolish would destroy land or artifact types. It would also preserve the color pie to some degree. On top of that I don't know why you can't target with any of the support killers, that will really be a pain with fabricate support on top of clues making other supports more difficult to hit.

Keep in mind, it's a different medium, and it's also Puzzle Quest. Being a different game, it doesn't necessarily need translate over directly. It's more important that it be fun, balanced, and interesting. So, some things will work better on paper than on a mobile game, and vise-versa.

It would be nice to be able to target supports, but that would drastically effect the balance of things (for better or worse, I don't know).

I've been asking for targeted support removal in every survey they send. I get really irritated when I'm trying to get rid of Claustrophobia, and my Demolish decides to target a clue token instead. Considering that in paper magic you get to chose your target, and with kill spells in this game, you get to chose your target, and with buff spells you get to chose your target, I think support removal should also be targetable instead of just hitting the support that's been on the field the longest.

Yawgmoth

Targetted support removal could be something that would differentiate colors. Red can have support destruction costing 3 but it would remain random (and destroys gems around it, feels very red). Green could have it costing more but with some ability to pick targets. Targetting supports with effects would be an entirely new game mechanic but it shouldn't be *that* hard to code.

Ohboy

wereotter wrote:

malafein wrote:

nexus13 wrote:

Their translations of these cards really don't make any sense (smash to smithereens changed from doing damage to the controller of the target, normally your opponent to doing damage to the caster). I don't know why supports weren't given subtypes, enchantment, artifact, land. Then the cards could have been translated directly. Smash to smithereens would destroy only artifact subtype supports while demolish would destroy land or artifact types. It would also preserve the color pie to some degree. On top of that I don't know why you can't target with any of the support killers, that will really be a pain with fabricate support on top of clues making other supports more difficult to hit.

Keep in mind, it's a different medium, and it's also Puzzle Quest. Being a different game, it doesn't necessarily need translate over directly. It's more important that it be fun, balanced, and interesting. So, some things will work better on paper than on a mobile game, and vise-versa.

It would be nice to be able to target supports, but that would drastically effect the balance of things (for better or worse, I don't know).

I've been asking for targeted support removal in every survey they send. I get really irritated when I'm trying to get rid of Claustrophobia, and my Demolish decides to target a clue token instead. Considering that in paper magic you get to chose your target, and with kill spells in this game, you get to chose your target, and with buff spells you get to chose your target, I think support removal should also be targetable instead of just hitting the support that's been on the field the longest.

Targeted supports make half the supports worthless.