*** Black Widow (Grey Suit) ***

konannfriends

So i was thinking of a way they could buff Grey Suit Black widow and i was trying to think about her 3 worse problems like i always do when trying fix a characters and give good ideas tothe devs.

so i came up with

1. Her health. ( This is something that cant be fixed but its definitely something they could work around, why do they make characters with low health anything less Than Cstorm, they should all be glass cannons which she is not )
2. Her play style( she revolves around scoring 19 green ap and dealing a crippling blow to the enemy team? sorry devs there are just to many characters who can do it with green [Lazy Thor] or without it [Bp, Deadpool] all who have better health. And outside of scoring crits with her over priced purple getting 19ap is hard to do before her 5950 is depleted
3. Her red. like **** is this piece of garbage? this thing should be tossed immediately

So i was thinking that they should give her a power similar to avoid. But then i got to thinking why did Hawkeye lose that power? I saw nothing wrong with it. any way this power is definitely fit for a character and would improve her tremendously so her powers would look something like this

Sniper Rifle - Green 15
Black Widow uses an accurate, long range rifle to shoot a location on the board, clearing a reticle shaped pattern. She deals damage for each tile destroyed and an additional 355 damage to the current target.
Level 2: +25% base damage. Costs 16 .
Level 3: Destroys more tiles. Costs 17 .
Level 4: +25% base damage. Costs 18 .
Level 5: Damages all enemies. Costs 19 .
Max Level: 3912 + tile damage

Dodge - (Passive) Black Widow Can dodge even a bullet at point Blank Range. when the team holds 11 or more green ap she leaps out of the way of attacks, Moving to the back of the team
Level 2: Activates at 10 or more
Level 3: Activates at 9 or more
Level 4: Activates at 8 or more
Level 5: Activates at 7 or more

if someone knows why avoid was removed let me know also because if it was broken or something then i thought of this for nothing

Unknown

It wasn't broken so much as totally totally useless. It's not like that damage went anywhere. Your team still lost X health, it just didn't go onto Hawkeye.

Instead of giving her a janky power with limited usefulness, why not just admit that Black Widow can go toe to toe with Steve Rodger (on occasion) and put her "dodge" onto her in the form of hit points. No reason she deserves less than 6800.

konannfriends

Lerysh wrote:

It wasn't broken so much as totally totally useless. It's not like that damage went anywhere. Your team still lost X health, it just didn't go onto Hawkeye.

Instead of giving her a janky power with limited usefulness, why not just admit that Black Widow can go toe to toe with Steve Rodger (on occasion) and put her "dodge" onto her in the form of hit points. No reason she deserves less than 6800.

i think the dodge is better than her janky red power is right now. it may do nothing but it will stop her from taking damage. its kinda like insurance, hey one i get 11 ap theres no way im kinda dye without merking the enemy team with 4000 damage. unless shes the last one standing

Also i think asking devs to change health is just too much. and atleast this way she is annoying on defense. lets say its forcing the oponent to beat up on the hulk and they have to beat him down slowly or else face a green cascade in sinper rifle, and if they do decide to go slow its only a matter of time before black widow gets her 19. this power is just supposed to keep her alive.

might i suggest they make her purple yellow and make it cost less so you cant use it with thor and you cant heal with wolvie.

so it wouls be like

Deceptive Tactics - Cost 8
Black Widow eliminates potential enemy assets while preparing her own attack. Converts 2 basic color tiles (except for Green) into Green tiles.
Level 2: +1 target tile.
Level 3: +1 target tile..
Level 4: +1 target tile.
Level 5: +1 target tile.

Unknown

So she hides behind Thor and he takes a bullet for her? Not very heroic.

I would much rather see her Pistols just get an upfront damage number, or damage per tile number (and clearer definitions on what tiles get shot at what covers) similar to Hood and just leave it at that. And her health increased, because, to quote the devs re: Cyclops "its not how tough they are it's how hard they are to take down."

Do you not see the giant nerf thread about MNM and how placing tiles is basically a terrible terrible design choice especially multiple tiles? No way Deceptive Tactics gets it's cost reduced. At 11 it's basically a SS strength where you can get upwards of 15+ in a single go for 11 purple.

Unknown

I think all low HP heroes should have a passive in some color that reduces damage taken from AP consuming moves by some %. This would also put some more value on attack tiles (and strike tiles, but not like strike tiles need any help).

Deceptive Tactics isn't as strong as Surgical Strike, but it's okay even if it's as strong as Surgical Strike, because you could (from a balance point of view) just have Surgical Strike instead on a character that is still better in every way so it's balanced by mathematical induction. Of course this starts out with the assumption that X Force is balanced but even if not, X Force would take the fall first before anybody with a similar potentially game ending 4 match needs to take a hit.

konannfriends

Lerysh wrote:

So she hides behind Thor and he takes a bullet for her? Not very heroic.

I would much rather see her Pistols just get an upfront damage number, or damage per tile number (and clearer definitions on what tiles get shot at what covers) similar to Hood and just leave it at that. And her health increased, because, to quote the devs re: Cyclops "its not how tough they are it's how hard they are to take down."

Do you not see the giant nerf thread about MNM and how placing tiles is basically a terrible terrible design choice especially multiple tiles? No way Deceptive Tactics gets it's cost reduced. At 11 it's basically a SS strength where you can get upwards of 15+ in a single go for 11 purple.

ok so what?..... you people are confusing.... you complain that you the player would be able to get 15 green ap with the use of a power. where in that sentence are you getting the short end of the stick?

Magneto marvel now has been out since what .. 2013 and now in 2015 creating colored tiles is bad desighn ****? bad design how? how is this hurting you or the game? anything that is going to allow me to compete with xforce is great to me.

yall complain about how characters are getting nerfed but when someone proposes a buff its a problem. in my opinion i could care less if they nerf characters. imo i think buffing the cast is a better option than nerfing.

Unknown

You wanna buff GSBW, that's great. This ain't how to do it. Reducing cost of her best ability (hint, it's not sniper rifle), giving her a power that hit the trash heap as terribad, and not addressing her low class health? No, just.. no.

Here.

[anchor=blackwidow3]Black Widow (Grey Suit)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare)
At Max Level: HP:6800 Tile damage: 11/61/12/79/70/13/4.0
Sniper Rifle - Green 13
5 covers max level: 6250 damage to 1 target, plus the sniper scope tile break damage. Get rid of the team damage aspect and just accept that GSBW is a single target killer.

Pistol - Red 8
Destroys X random tiles, does Y damage per tile destroyed. Does not generate AP.
3 covers max level: about 1600 damage
4 covers max level: about 1900 damage
5 covers max level: about 2700 damage

Deceptive Tactics - Purple 11
No change

Clearly her thing is Purple -> green -> dead guy. But this version of pistols has a bit of damage output at least. And can be used to destroy random CDs or specials or whatever in a pinch because it's cheap enough. I'm thinking like 10 tiles for 1 cover, +2 per cover up to 20 tiles (1/3 of the board) for 140 damage a tile at 5 covers. Plus some cascade.

Keeps her Thor synergy, improved even because he's AoE she's Supressive Fire. Keeps her Collossus synergy. Better health, better Sniper IMO, never understood how you snipe a team anyway.

Unknown

Best, best way to buff her is to get rid of the red ability and give her a passive that generates green ap to make up for her low health when taking a certain amount of damage like 200 damage or something that would make a player leave her for last, and with cover upgrades at 1 cover generate 1 green ap at 2 covers generate 2 green hp at 3 covers generate 2 green and 1 purple at 4 generate 2 of each green and purple at five generate two of each and hit back to opponent (do some damage ack). Also her green should be lowered to the most 16 ap

konannfriends

Lerysh wrote:

You wanna buff GSBW, that's great. This ain't how to do it. Reducing cost of her best ability (hint, it's not sniper rifle), giving her a power that hit the trash heap as terribad, and not addressing her low class health? No, just.. no.

Here.

[anchor=blackwidow3]Black Widow (Grey Suit)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare)
At Max Level: HP:6800 Tile damage: 11/61/12/79/70/13/4.0
Sniper Rifle - Green 13
5 covers max level: 6250 damage to 1 target, plus the sniper scope tile break damage. Get rid of the team damage aspect and just accept that GSBW is a single target killer.

Pistol - Red 8
Destroys X random tiles, does Y damage per tile destroyed. Does not generate AP.
3 covers max level: about 1600 damage
4 covers max level: about 1900 damage
5 covers max level: about 2700 damage

Deceptive Tactics - Purple 11
No change

Clearly her thing is Purple -> green -> dead guy. But this version of pistols has a bit of damage output at least. And can be used to destroy random CDs or specials or whatever in a pinch because it's cheap enough. I'm thinking like 10 tiles for 1 cover, +2 per cover up to 20 tiles (1/3 of the board) for 140 damage a tile at 5 covers. Plus some cascade.

Keeps her Thor synergy, improved even because he's AoE she's Supressive Fire. Keeps her Collossus synergy. Better health, better Sniper IMO, never understood how you snipe a team anyway.[/quote
the 8ap nuke would be great but the sniper rifle seems a little op and kinda makes her an insta skip.

you should add a draw back to the green like

Sniper Rifle - Green 13
5 covers max level: Black Widow uses along range rifle to shoot a location on the board, clearing a reticle shaped pattern. dealing damage for each tile destroyed and an additional 6250 damage to the target, She must reload after the shot. ( stuns her for 1 turn at max level)

wirius

I hate to say it, but they just brought her back in from rotation. They do champion reviews on the one's out of rotation. That means they concluded she didn't need a buff. =/

konannfriends

wirius wrote:

I hate to say it, but they just brought her back in from rotation. They do champion reviews on the one's out of rotation. That means they concluded she didn't need a buff. =/

Even though, mystique just got nerfed to bottom tier gsbw is still worse

Unknown

wirius wrote:

I hate to say it, but they just brought her back in from rotation. They do champion reviews on the one's out of rotation. That means they concluded she didn't need a buff. =/

The last handful of changes have been to characters that weren't out of rotation (if you don't count the 3rd cover additions to 2 cover characters). That whole line about tweaking while in the vault is hooey.

Unknown

konannfriends wrote:

the 8ap nuke would be great but the sniper rifle seems a little op and kinda makes her an insta skip.

you should add a draw back to the green like

Sniper Rifle - Green 13
5 covers max level: Black Widow uses along range rifle to shoot a location on the board, clearing a reticle shaped pattern. dealing damage for each tile destroyed and an additional 6250 damage to the target, She must reload after the shot. ( stuns her for 1 turn at max level)

I could get behind that. I could also get behind a red passive that just generates 1 AP a turn. Something like this:

Lining Up The Shot - Passive
1 Cover: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Red
2 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Purple
3 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Blue or Purple (OBW throwback)
4 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Yellow or TU
5 Covers: Generates 2 Green AP whenever you make a match

That's actually probably too good, but something like that. Maybe just similar to Espionage (makes an AP on / / and adds a bonus damage) Or maybe just "whenever Black Widow makes a match" which would be way harder on her off colors.

konannfriends

Lerysh wrote:

konannfriends wrote:

the 8ap nuke would be great but the sniper rifle seems a little op and kinda makes her an insta skip.

you should add a draw back to the green like

Sniper Rifle - Green 13
5 covers max level: Black Widow uses along range rifle to shoot a location on the board, clearing a reticle shaped pattern. dealing damage for each tile destroyed and an additional 6250 damage to the target, She must reload after the shot. ( stuns her for 1 turn at max level)

I could get behind that. I could also get behind a red passive that just generates 1 AP a turn. Something like this:

Lining Up The Shot - Passive
1 Cover: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Red
2 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Purple
3 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Blue or Purple (OBW throwback)
4 Covers: Generates 1 Green AP whenever you match Yellow or TU
5 Covers: Generates 2 Green AP whenever you make a match

That's actually probably too good, but something like that. Maybe just similar to Espionage (makes an AP on / / and adds a bonus damage) Or maybe just "whenever Black Widow makes a match" which would be way harder on her off colors.

lol i like that but yeah that is a little too good. and it needs a better name ...

Expert Marksman - Passive
Natasha is the best at what she does. Whenever the She makes a Red Match she destroys one red tile on the board (Does not deal Damage) ( Does not Generate ap )

Level 2: Destroys 1 Purple tile whenever she makes a purple match
Level 3: Destroys 1 Green tile whenever she makes a green match
Level 4: Deals damage for destroyed tiles
Level 5: Gains Ap for destroyed tiles

This seems way weaker than what you created but anything is better than her red now

Trilateralus

A lot of these suggestions seem to revolve around gaining more green AP reinforcing her role as a one trick pony. Buff her to 6800 health and tweak her red. Green and purple are already great damage dealers, reduce the cost of red, increase the number of shots, keeping them targeted but reducing the area. Something along the lines of 10 AP for 5 2x2 shots. Low damage but a great special tile sweeper.

ballingbees

A buff to her health should be adequate enough. The damage per AP for her green justifies the high AP cost. Like Steve, she needs more health to compensate her slow powers. And like Steve, she should be getting 8600 health. Why? Because like Steve, she also took the super soldier serum, to be anything less than Steve would hint of discrimination.

Hey Steve was a puny lad before taking the serum. Natasha was already a top athlete/assassin before taking the serum. Just saying.

konannfriends

ballingbees wrote:

A buff to her health should be adequate enough. The damage per AP for her green justifies the high AP cost. Like Steve, she needs more health to compensate her slow powers. And like Steve, she should be getting 8600 health. Why? Because like Steve, she also took the super soldier serum, to be anything less than Steve would hint of discrimination.

Hey Steve was a puny lad before taking the serum. Natasha was already a top athlete/assassin before taking the serum. Just saying.

I wish there was someone with high health who could tank pink for her, come to think of it there are no high health pink users.. unless im forgetting really badly

Unknown

Trilateralus wrote:

A lot of these suggestions seem to revolve around gaining more green AP reinforcing her role as a one trick pony. Buff her to 6800 health and tweak her red. Green and purple are already great damage dealers, reduce the cost of red, increase the number of shots, keeping them targeted but reducing the area. Something along the lines of 10 AP for 5 2x2 shots. Low damage but a great special tile sweeper.

If by a lot you mean... 1? Originally I said her red should just do damage for tiles broken a la The Hood. A passive that generates AP is just an alternate idea.

Purple is not a great damage dealer, it deals no damage. It's a feeder to green. And green is just... weird. Why the hell does a sniper rifle hit the whole team? Why does the area change, they power's effect change, and the cost change at 5 covers? That's why I propose it should just be a single target over nuke. Kills 6800s dead.

konannfriends

Lerysh wrote:

Trilateralus wrote:

A lot of these suggestions seem to revolve around gaining more green AP reinforcing her role as a one trick pony. Buff her to 6800 health and tweak her red. Green and purple are already great damage dealers, reduce the cost of red, increase the number of shots, keeping them targeted but reducing the area. Something along the lines of 10 AP for 5 2x2 shots. Low damage but a great special tile sweeper.

If by a lot you mean... 1? Originally I said her red should just do damage for tiles broken a la The Hood. A passive that generates AP is just an alternate idea.

Purple is not a great damage dealer, it deals no damage. It's a feeder to green. And green is just... weird. Why the hell does a sniper rifle hit the whole team? Why does the area change, they power's effect change, and the cost change at 5 covers? That's why I propose it should just be a single target over nuke. Kills 6800s dead.

yeah it should be but with her pink power i think we should consider the opness of what we created. i think for 6700 damage the move should cost 15 ap.

id like it if her red just cost 6 ap and was a board shake up like juggs green. even if it didnt deal extra damage a board shake up is always a plus.

Aidonis

konannfriends wrote:

ballingbees wrote:

A buff to her health should be adequate enough. The damage per AP for her green justifies the high AP cost. Like Steve, she needs more health to compensate her slow powers. And like Steve, she should be getting 8600 health. Why? Because like Steve, she also took the super soldier serum, to be anything less than Steve would hint of discrimination.

Hey Steve was a puny lad before taking the serum. Natasha was already a top athlete/assassin before taking the serum. Just saying.

I wish there was someone with high health who could tank pink for her, come to think of it there are no high health pink users.. unless im forgetting really badly

Daken or Blade could, though you would have to **** her 10-20 levels would be my guess. Her pink is 79, they both max at 70 (max level of course).