Multiplayer and trade system

Maveric78f

Dear community manager,

I consider myself as a competitive player on MtG-PQ.
I used to consider myself also as a competitive limited and constructed player in paper MtG and on MtG-O.

I spent a lot on MtG and MtG-O. I'd say 10k€. I did not spend a dime in MtG-PQ. Why?

1/ No trading: investing in paper MtG is fructful. If you pay X$ for a dual land, you know you will be able to sell it for at least as much later. I still own about 10k€ in MtG cards. If I could exchange my mythics against crystals, then I would know that if I buy Gisela, I might be able to sell her for a fuckton of crystals later, and who knows I'll even be able to sell my crystals for real money when I need it.

2/ No multiplayer: we are hitting the limits of what MtG-PQ can do now. Competition is not about deckbuilding, it's not about being smart, it's about being available at the right hours, and about playing as much and as fast as possible. It's not where I find my fun.

3/ Draft tournaments: in addition to providing meta-strategies to this game, playing with different cards at each tournament is what makes each tournament unique. And it's what makes people buy packs.

Do you work on these directions, or do you just plan to repeat the same events with new cards and new creature types? If the answers are no and yes, then I'd better stop playing right now, because I am not sure I am taking any pleasure in it anymore.

Best regards,

Maveric78f

Disclaimer: about 1/, I'd personally prefer to keep the game how it is now, without any exchange system. Thanks to the impossibility of exchanging cards, each deck is unique right now, but if you want to sell your product for real money, be sure I won't spend 30€ on a virtual card.

aesith

This game like any other is a business. It needs to make money to keep people employed and creating new content.

Allowing trading would kill this game off.

Crystals are in abundance to buy some packs and there are alot of mythics handed out every event. Trading would have people finishing off collections ASAP if you could trade duplicates, and trading would be a waste without having doubles of cards to trade away.

Maveric78f

I'm quite sure about the opposite. Nowadays, a lot of mythics are collected by top10 coalitions and top200 players in general, but the rest of them are struggling to get any. Their only option is to open packs, or to buy exclusives.

Even if I am, myself, in a top10 coalition, I joined them only 3 weeks ago, and I only have 585 cards (and 21 mythics + 5 duplicates). I would use the trading system for 2 things: give value to my dupes, and ensure value of my purchases. It would definitely lead me to buy valuable cards (not Gisela though).

As I said, only 3 weeks I'm in a top10 coalition, but I'm already on a short leave, because I do not have any use to loot EMN non-exclusive mythics. Better let them to other players, better for myself not committing me to the noxious schedule imposed by the current events structure, and better for the coalition to make contact with potential subs. A third advantage of enabling trading is therefore to keep the top players motivated.

But, still, as I said in my first post, if the game could simply get more interesting by allowing 2/ and 3/, that should be enough to keep players motivated.

jackvett

If you're in a top 10 coalition, you're not the target audience for sales. You get all your mythics for free weekly, which is why you have 21 mythics after three bloody weeks of playing and I have 7 (1 dupe so 6) after 6 months.

The other ~6000 of us grind for 1-3 BB/month, which has an abysmal drop rate. So your idea of implementing trading would completely help you out, up at the top. Me with the 6 mythics? Sure I get to trade my one dupe, but then I've still got terrible cards, and you're still getting two a week.

Rich get richer, and you're just another rich kid asking for more. Next, please.

ZW2007-

jackvett wrote:

If you're in a top 10 coalition, you're not the target audience for sales. You get all your mythics for free weekly, which is why you have 21 mythics after three bloody weeks of playing and I have 7 (1 dupe so 6) after 6 months.

The other ~6000 of us grind for 1-3 BB/month, which has an abysmal drop rate. So your idea of implementing trading would completely help you out, up at the top. Me with the 6 mythics? Sure I get to trade my one dupe, but then I've still got terrible cards, and you're still getting two a week.

Rich get richer, and you're just another rich kid asking for more. Next, please.

Nowhere did he say that he's only been playing for 3 weeks. He said he's only been in a top 10 coalition for three weeks and in that time has collected all of the EMN mythics available (a whole 6). With good playing, a good coalition, and really good luck; a top tier player could earn all 6 non-exclusive EMN mythics in three events.

As for the trade system, no one said it would have to be one to one trades or even only require the trading of dupes. You aren't looking at the big picture. I'd gladly trade my only copy of a mythic that I don't use to someone that wants it if they had a rare or even an uncommon that I really want. There are lots of good cards out there that aren't mythic rarity that plenty of players don't have.

That being said, I just don't see trading ever happening. I would, however, like to see inter-coalition trading of specific event rewards. For example, Player A and B both get a dupe EMN rare from their Emrakul's Corruption coalition reward. Player A does not have the rare that Player B received but Player B already had both. Player B can trade his dupe for a different dupe and allow at least one of them to get a new rare. This could be limited only to the coalition reward, the personal reward or a combination of both. I think the coalition reward only would be best since that would unsure the rarity of the card traded is the same. The only downside here is top coalitions would end up with all 20 players having all the mythics faster. On the other hand, this could lead those coalitions to not compete in events that wouldn't benefit them which opens up space for other coalitions to get into the top 10. And before you call me out as a rich kid, I am not in a top 10 coalition and only have one EMN mythic which I got from saving up a ton of SOI packs prior to EMN release and then opening them once the set was out.

glggwp

jackvett wrote:

If you're in a top 10 coalition, you're not the target audience for sales. You get all your mythics for free weekly, which is why you have 21 mythics after three bloody weeks of playing and I have 7 (1 dupe so 6) after 6 months.

The other ~6000 of us grind for 1-3 BB/month, which has an abysmal drop rate. So your idea of implementing trading would completely help you out, up at the top. Me with the 6 mythics? Sure I get to trade my one dupe, but then I've still got terrible cards, and you're still getting two a week.

Rich get richer, and you're just another rich kid asking for more. Next, please.

don't you realize that a whale in a top coalition can collect virtually all cards available now??? like full collection??? and everybody else including whales not in top coalition just can't get even close to that level???

Lagartha

A lot of people in the top ten actually don't have quite the card collection you're imagining. And a lot of us are still f2p. We had to grind our way into a useful collection just like the new people joining now have to. TheNewTalent has a handful of players with less than ten mythics but they ask for deck advice and rely on the community to help them use their limited collection to the best of their ability.

If you want an instant collection, you're going to need money. If you don't want to spend money, you'll need to put in time and effort.

It's like getting mad at Bill Gates for having more money than you. He worked for it. So can you.

We've got an amazing group of helpful, patient players that would love to help out anyone who asks. Maybe instead of attacking, try being part of the group?

Maveric78f

jackvett wrote:

If you're in a top 10 coalition, you're not the target audience for sales. You get all your mythics for free weekly, which is why you have 21 mythics after three bloody weeks of playing and I have 7 (1 dupe so 6) after 6 months.

The other ~6000 of us grind for 1-3 BB/month, which has an abysmal drop rate. So your idea of implementing trading would completely help you out, up at the top. Me with the 6 mythics? Sure I get to trade my one dupe, but then I've still got terrible cards, and you're still getting two a week.

Rich get richer, and you're just another rich kid asking for more. Next, please.

You're not very good at reading, are you?

I said I was against the trading system because the fact everybody has to build his own deck is one ingredient that makes this game enjoyable. But I said that if they wanted money from me, they would have to do that. And I think they want money, from me and from anybody else in general. So, I'm not a rich that wants to get richer by proposing this. I even may be a rich that wants to remain one of the richest by not wanting the trading system.

So I repeat myself, speculation is good for sales. You cannot have speculation without a trading system. I just do not understand why they do not make it happen.

Also, my points 2/ and 3/ are not discussed here, maybe I should have split the posts, but this is the most important part for me. Currently, there is no challenge in the current events. As yunnnn showed, you can achieve a perfect score with less that 1 rare/mythic in each deck (and a good planeswalker). When I play, there is one game in 20 where I have to make meaningful and interesting choices. I work in AI and I know that as bad as the AI currently is, it will be difficult to make it significantly better. We need to play against each other. We need tournaments that are not spread over several days (1 or 2 hours max) and so much demanding on the schedule. Each event requires around 50 games to be played (5 hours minimum). The only problem solving I'm left with is how to make my decks faster so that I lose less time playing these events I'm not enjoying anymore. That's ridiculous because I'd love this game if they did what I said, and that's the reason why I keep farming the events rewarding with non EMN cards.

jackvett

You're right! I didn't read the last sentence of your post which contradicts the rest of your post. Now that I've read it I realize what a waste of time responding is!

you would only spend money on the game, if they introduced three features. and one of those features: trading.

but you don't like trading and would prefer it not be introduced because something something our decks are snowflakes?

@ Lagartha not attacking (beyond my normal elderly vitriol), just waiting for someone to refute my point that people with access to lots of cards will be the ones benefitting from a trading system. those who don't have access really don't get mileage out of trading. I'd get one trade, for my dupe Engulf. And then I still am stuck with the good cards i have and want to keep, and a bunch of chaff that nobody wants.

@ glggwp Lagartha said the exact opposite of you so idk man. maybe drink your coffee slower

@ZW2007 what you're referring to are called "bulk rares" in paper MtG, and while you might think that they have value because of their rarity people aren't willing to add value to garbage on scarcity alone. Your hypothetical trade of Odric (whom you don't use) for Grip of Desolation wouldn't have takers, beyond little kids who like the art of Odric (just like in paper MtG). And for trades of equal value? you still have to have the card collection to support those trades. you'd have to be a rich kid (yeah i read your post to the end fight me)

We've also seen that when the top 10 coalitions already have the cards, they will still compete like greyhounds for the prizes, because apparently someone started a rumor that "lifetime coalition points matter." There is really no interest in opening the pool up. Saying this as someone who likes the coalition slack and has no problem with that whole system. Y'all organized, and 200 people can accomplish things individuals can't. Like keeping rewards from bleeding out to plebs!

ZW2007-

jackvett wrote:

@ZW2007 what you're referring to are called "bulk rares" in paper MtG, and while you might think that they have value because of their rarity people aren't willing to add value to garbage on scarcity alone. Your hypothetical trade of Odric (whom you don't use) for Grip of Desolation wouldn't have takers, beyond little kids who like the art of Odric (just like in paper MtG). And for trades of equal value? you still have to have the card collection to support those trades. you'd have to be a rich kid (yeah i read your post to the end fight me)

You seem to be referring to bulk rares from a monetary stand point that does not exist in this game. My single MtGPQ copy of Crush of Tentancles is worth as much as my 6 copies of Transgress the Mind, zero. Would I trade my one Odric for Grip of Desolation if I needed Grip? Of course I would if someone was willing on the other end. I'm sure there's someone out there that doesn't have Odric and has Grips to spare too.

The people who would benefit the most out of trading are the newer players with smaller collections. Having all the mythics means nothing. Remember the Saheeli Rai event? Remember how great the pre-con Saheeli deck was with all those mythics stuffed into it? You can only fit 10 cards in a deck. Sure, some dual colored planeswalkers might be able to pull off a really strong deck with all mythics but who cares? You can't win events with one planeswalker (unless it's that Halloween event that we got to play once).

I personally got all my good cards in blue early on and had **** for the other colors. I would have gladly traded away my single copy of an amazing blue mythic for a bunch of strong rares in the other colors. That would have been a good trade for me and it would have been a good trade for the other guy or else he wouldn't make the trade. Even today, I would trade my only Engulf the Shore for a From Under the Floor Boards. Who would make that trade? Someone that wants Engulf more than they want to keep From Under the Floor Boards. That doesn't mean one card is better or worth more than the other. That just means, based on my collection, From Under the Floor Boards is more valuable to ME. You seem to be taking it from a "I want all the cards standpoint." Lots of people just want specific cards that they can never seem to be lucky enough to open.

I don't know why I'm even having this discussion though. They will never open up trading anyway and I don't expect them to regardless of how much I'd like it if they did.

jackvett

Well when financial interests prevent this game from allowing us to buy cards directly and not flirt with RNG, I think this discussion is totally worth having.

i'm not trying to have a discussion about the power level of mythics. at all. FWIW Saheeli's deck was viewed as weak mainly because it lost games to RC too easily. i'm gonna laugh at you if you tell me TSN isn't a great card that boosts any deck it's even moderately supported in.

i'm just trying to impress upon y'all the point that people with lots of cards have the flexibility to make trades. New players, or anyone who has a small collection, don't have that kind of flexibility.

So yes, you could trade cards with a small collection. But like you said, you can't win events with only one PW. You'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

span_argoman

ZW2007- wrote:

The people who would benefit the most out of trading are the newer players with smaller collections. Having all the mythics means nothing. Remember the Saheeli Rai event? Remember how great the pre-con Saheeli deck was with all those mythics stuffed into it? You can only fit 10 cards in a deck. Sure, some dual colored planeswalkers might be able to pull off a really strong deck with all mythics but who cares? You can't win events with one planeswalker (unless it's that Halloween event that we got to play once).

I'm probably going to get modded for being off-topic but anyway in response to that point, I'd say Kiora, Jace 2.0, Saheeli, and White planeswalkers can build ridiculous decks with access to all the mythics. And since Ob is excellent to the point of not needing multiple mythics for a ridiculous decks I believe that already covers all colours.

Also Saheeli's deck was bad because of the deck composition in addition to having no response to Runaway Carriage.

Back on-topic, I'm against trading of duplicates because it disadvantages all those who went ahead and converted their duplicates into runes. I would expect a lot of people to raise hell if a trading system was implemented. And with the coalition-event system dishing out a ton of mythics, I highly doubt the developers would implement trading as opposed to say something like single card purchases.

Maveric78f

Or they transform into runes all the preciously acquired dupes, and start the dupe exchange from there.

octal9

Maveric78f wrote:

Or they transform into runes all the preciously acquired dupes, and start the dupe exchange from there.

You and I both know that would incite a riot.

They'll need to do a third, new currency to implement trades or utilize a crystal tax onto every trade.

Volrak

Maveric78f wrote:

Or they transform into runes all the preciously acquired dupes, and start the dupe exchange from there.

Indeed - I think forcing automatic dupe conversion into runes right from when they decided to make it possible would have been the best approach, regardless of whether it would ever be changed later to add new uses for runes.