PVE: Thick as Thieves (2016-11-17 to 2016-11-21)

rainkingucd
rainkingucd Posts: 1,419 Chairperson of the Boards
Agent Venom arrives. Will he have his own smiley icon_venom.png , or will perpetual confusion reign on the forums?

PVE: Thick as Thieves (2016-11-17 to 2016-11-21)

Event Info:
Episode 3: Thick as Thieves
Length of Event: 4 days
Sub-Events? Yes; Alliance Rewards in Sub-Events? Yes
Number of Sub-Events: 4 Length of Sub-Events: 24 hours
Main Bracket Size: 1000 Sub Bracket Size: 1000
Unique Reward(s): None
Other Notes:
  • One node in Main (a team-up node) is repeatable and playable for points throughout the event.
  • Enemy Types (Main): Maggia Goons
  • Sub-Event 1: Family Reunion
    • Length: 24 hours
    • Sub-Event Nodes: 10 Total. 6 Regular (repeatable); 3 Essential (repeatable); 1 One-Time Only
    • Enemy Types: Ares, Bullseye (2*), Daken (2*) Iron Man (1*), Magneto (3*), Moonstone, Ragnarok, Venom, Hammer Goons, Maggia Goons
  • Sub-Event 2: Anderson, Inc.
    • Length: 24 hours
    • Sub-Event Nodes: 10 Total. 6 Regular (repeatable); 3 Essential (repeatable); 1 One-Time Only
    • Enemy Types: Ares, Bullseye (2*), Daken (2*), Moonstone, Ragnarok, Venom, Yelena Belova, ISO-8 Goons, Maggia Goons
  • Sub-Event 3: Scotland Yard
    • Length: 24 hours
    • Sub-Event Nodes: 9 Total. 6 Regular (repeatable); 3 Essential (repeatable)
    • Enemy Types: Ares, Bullseye (2*) Daken (2*), Juggernaut, Moonstone, Venom, Yelena Belova, Hammer Goons, Maggia Goons
  • Sub-Event 4: The Meeting
    • Length: 24 hours
    • Sub-Event Nodes: 12 Total. 6 Regular (repeatable); 3 Essential (repeatable); 3 One-Time Only
    • Enemy Types: Ares, Bullseye (2*), Daken (2*), Hood, Magneto, Moonstone, Ragnarok, Yelena Belova, ISO-8 Goons, Maggia Goons

Link to mags1587 PVE Format Guide:
https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14484

This Event Essentials:

star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_katebishop.png Hawkeye
star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.png Classic
star.pngstar.pngicon_thor.png Marvel NOW!

New Characters:
star.pngstar.pngstar.pngdrstrange_icon.png Stephen Strange
star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.png Agent Venom



This Week:
star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.png
GwenpoolIcon.PNG Gwen Poole
icon_jeangrey.png All-New X-Men
icon_mrfantastic.png Reed Richards
icon_thing.png Classic

star.pngstar.pngstar.png
icon_cyclops.png Uncanny X-Men
icon_quicksilver.png Pietro Maximoff
icon_rocket.png Most Wanted
icon_storm.png Mohawk
icon_wolverine.png Stephen Strange

star.pngstar.png
icon_blackwidow.png Original
icon_magneto.png Marvel NOW!

star.png
icon_spiderman.png Original
icon_ironman.png Model 35

*Note icon_venom.png rewards indicate Agent Venom, and not Eddie Brock. I'm too lazy to change it.

Level 8
Single Player Rewards

1-2: 5000 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, & Previous Rank Covers,
3-10: 4500 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png
11-20: 4500 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
21-50: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png, ,
51-100: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png, ,
101-200: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, 3 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
201-300: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, 3 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
301-500: 2500 iso8big.png, , 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
501-600: 2500 iso8big.png, , elitetoken_icon.png , ,
601-800: 2000 iso8big.png, , 3 x token_standard.png, ,
801-1000: 1750 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,

Progression Rewards:

100: 400 iso8big.png
500: +3 Stockpile redtile.pngyellowtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png
1000: 400 iso8big.png
3500: healthpackbig.png
5500: 400 iso8big.png
8000: 600 iso8big.png
10000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
12500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
14500: token_heroic.png
17000: 750 iso8big.png
19000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
21500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
23500: 50 heropointsbig.png
26000: 750 iso8big.png
28000: 100 heropointsbig.png
30000: 1000 iso8big.png
32000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_katebishop.pngpurpleflag.png
45000: token_event.png
52500: 1250 iso8big.png
63000: 15 commandpointsbig.png

Alliance Rewards:

1-2: 5000 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
3-10: 4500 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
11-25: 4250 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
26-50: 4250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
51-100: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
101-250: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
251-500: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
501-10000: 2750 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,

Level 7
Single Player Rewards

1-2: 4500 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, & Previous Rank Covers,
3-10: 4000 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png
11-20: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
21-50: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png, ,
51-100: 3250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png, ,
101-200: 3000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, 3 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
201-300: 2750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, 3 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
301-500: 2250 iso8big.png, , 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
501-600: 2000 iso8big.png, , elitetoken_icon.png , ,
601-800: 1750 iso8big.png, , 3 x token_standard.png, ,
801-1000: 1500 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,

Progression Rewards:

100: 400 iso8big.png
500: +3 Stockpile redtile.pngyellowtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png
1000: 400 iso8big.png
3500: healthpackbig.png
5500: 400 iso8big.png
8000: 600 iso8big.png
10000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
12500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
14500: token_heroic.png
17000: 600 iso8big.png
19000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
21500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
23500: 50 heropointsbig.png
26000: 750 iso8big.png
28000: 50 heropointsbig.png
30000: 1000 iso8big.png
32000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_katebishop.pngpurpleflag.png
45000: token_event.png
52500: 1000 iso8big.png
63000: 15 commandpointsbig.png

Alliance Rewards:

1-2: 4500 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
3-10: 4250 iso8big.png, 150 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
11-25: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
26-50: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
51-100: 3250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
101-250: 3000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
251-500: 2750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
501-10000: 2500 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,

Level 6
Single Player Rewards

1-2: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, & Previous Rank Covers,
3-10: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngredflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png
11-20: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngblackflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
21-50: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png, ,
51-100: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png, ,
101-200: 2500 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, 3 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
201-300: 2500 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
301-500: 1500 iso8big.png, , 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
501-600: 1250 iso8big.png, , 3 x token_standard.png, ,
601-800: 1000 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,
801-1000: 1000 iso8big.png, , token_standard.png, ,

Progression Rewards:

100: 400 iso8big.png
500: +3 Stockpile redtile.pngyellowtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png
1000: 400 iso8big.png
3500: healthpackbig.png
5500: token_standard.png
8000: 500 iso8big.png
10000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
12500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
14500: token_heroic.png
17000: 500 iso8big.png
19000: elitetoken_icon.png
21500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
23500: 50 heropointsbig.png
26000: 750 iso8big.png
28000: 50 heropointsbig.png
30000: 750 iso8big.png
32000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
45000: token_event.png
52500: 1000 iso8big.png
63000: 15 commandpointsbig.png

Alliance Rewards:

1-2: 4000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
3-10: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
11-25: 3250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
26-50: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_venom.pngyellowflag.png,
51-100: 2500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
101-250: 2000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
251-500: 1750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
501-10000: 1500 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,

Level 5
Single Player Rewards

1-2: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngredflag.png, & Previous Rank Covers,
3-10: 3250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngredflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pnggreenflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png
11-20: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pnggreenflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
21-50: 3000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png, ,
51-100: 2500 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png, ,
101-200: 2000 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
201-300: 1750 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, 2 x elitetoken_icon.png , ,
301-500: 1000 iso8big.png, , 3 x token_standard.png, ,
501-600: 800 iso8big.png, , 3 x token_standard.png, ,
601-800: 800 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,
801-1000: 800 iso8big.png, , token_standard.png, ,

Progression Rewards:

100: Rainbow Damage Boost
500: 400 iso8big.png
1000: +3 Stockpile redtile.pngyellowtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png
3500: healthpackbig.png
5500: token_standard.png
8000: 500 iso8big.png
10000: star.pngstar.pngicon_thor.pngredflag.png
12500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
14500: token_heroic.png
17000: 500 iso8big.png
19000: elitetoken_icon.png
21500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
23500: 50 heropointsbig.png
26000: 500 iso8big.png
28000: 25 heropointsbig.png
30000: 500 iso8big.png
32000: star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_beast.pnggreenflag.png
45000: token_event.png
52500: 500 iso8big.png
63000: 15 commandpointsbig.png

Alliance Rewards:

1-2: 3500 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
3-10: 3250 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
11-25: 3000 iso8big.png, 100 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
26-50: 2750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
51-100: 2250 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
101-250: 1750 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
251-500: 1500 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,
501-10000: 1000 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, elitetoken_icon.png ,

Level 4
Single Player Rewards

1-2: 3000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngredflag.png, & Previous Rank Covers,
3-10: 2750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngredflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pnggreenflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png
11-20: 2750 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pnggreenflag.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png,
21-50: 2500 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png, ,
51-100: 2250 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_hulk.pngblackflag.png, ,
101-200: 2000 iso8big.png, 25 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngicon_captainamerica.pngredflag.png, ,
201-300: 1500 iso8big.png, 10 heropointsbig.png, 3 x token_standard.png, ,
301-500: 800 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,
501-600: 750 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,
601-800: 700 iso8big.png, , 2 x token_standard.png, ,
801-1000: 500 iso8big.png, , token_standard.png, ,

Progression Rewards:

100: Rainbow Damage Boost
500: 300 iso8big.png
1000: +3 Stockpile redtile.pngyellowtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png
3500: healthpackbig.png
5500: token_standard.png
8000: 300 iso8big.png
10000: star.pngstar.pngicon_thor.pngredflag.png
12500: 2 commandpointsbig.png
14500: token_heroic.png
17000: 400 iso8big.png
19000: token_standard.png
21500: 5 commandpointsbig.png
23500: 50 heropointsbig.png
26000: 400 iso8big.png
28000: 25 heropointsbig.png
30000: 400 iso8big.png
32000: star.pngstar.pngicon_thor.pngredflag.png
45000: token_event.png
52500: 400 iso8big.png
63000: 10 commandpointsbig.png

Alliance Rewards:

1-2: 3000 iso8big.png, 50 heropointsbig.png, star.pngstar.pngstar.pngcust

Comments

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards
    I noticed for SCL8 that T100 Alliance Placement rewards do not give 2 Heroic tokens for this event. Was it like this for Strange Sights? I don't remember. I am curious if they removed the alliance heroic token rewards altogether.
  • rainkingucd
    rainkingucd Posts: 1,419 Chairperson of the Boards
    According to Cthulhu's post its also icon_venom.png. Makes sense as there's only one Venom symbiote i guess

    Yeah, kinda. But there are icon_hulkcho.png & icon_hulk.png , since Cho took "the hulk essence" or whatnot from Banner. Or icon_ms_marvel.png & icon_caroldanvers.png for the same person. Who knows. A new smiley would make my life easier with these threads, I'll say that much icon_e_smile.gif
  • mckauhu
    mckauhu Posts: 740 Critical Contributor
    Was it this event where is a grand iso price in every subs last node?
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    mckauhu wrote:
    Was it this event where is a grand iso price in every subs last node?
    No, that's Simulator and ISO Brotherhood.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,817 Chairperson of the Boards
    This event is full of Muscle....having Kate as essential is not fun. CD vs CD...you lose.
  • rainkingucd
    rainkingucd Posts: 1,419 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pulled a yellowflag.pngicon_venom.png Agent Venom from my sub 1 rewards token. Makes the rest of the event a whole lot easier.
  • Haxis
    Haxis Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    for some reason, finding a solid team here is frustrating me.. anyone have any ideas?

    Using Strang3/4Clops/3Storm mostly..
  • Wolfspwn
    Wolfspwn Posts: 12 Just Dropped In
    Haxis wrote:
    for some reason, finding a solid team here is frustrating me.. anyone have any ideas?

    Using Strang3/4Clops/3Storm mostly..

    3* strange / JG / SW worked like a charm for me. Those countdown tiles stands no chance.
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 562 Critical Contributor
    Haxis wrote:
    for some reason, finding a solid team here is frustrating me.. anyone have any ideas?

    Using Strang3/4Clops/3Storm mostly..
    Depends on your roster - looks like yours could use some updating icon_e_wink.gif

    I've been using my 4/3/4 Jean Grey, champed 3Clops, and the third member varies. Sometimes Beast, sometimes R&G, sometimes MoStorm, sometimes QS. I've been changing it up to Jean/Clops/SWitch though...

    Jean and 3Clops form a complete rainbow by themselves (lacking the active blue which is why Beast and R&G are nice), but none of these teams really have a strong synergy. Jean is far too slow by herself to manage Muscles without SWitch as an accelerator, and even boosted, 4/3/4 is lackluster on damage dealt when your Muscles are hitting 21k health pools.

    My Strang3 is only 2/5/3. I think he does 750 unboosted damage with his passive... see the same problem mentioned above when dealing with Muscles. He might be a good third to run with JG/Clops though...
  • Haxis
    Haxis Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    Smudge wrote:

    Depends on your roster - looks like yours could use some updating icon_e_wink.gif
    ..


    Ughhh fine. There icon_razz.gif it's so slow doing it which is why I get lazy.. wish I could update it via spreadsheet. Take a look, let me know your thoughts on team comp then icon_e_smile.gif
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 562 Critical Contributor
    Haxis wrote:
    Smudge wrote:

    Depends on your roster - looks like yours could use some updating icon_e_wink.gif
    ..


    Ughhh fine. There icon_razz.gif it's so slow doing it which is why I get lazy.. wish I could update it via spreadsheet. Take a look, let me know your thoughts on team comp then icon_e_smile.gif
    You may not have any blue on Teen Jean, but her purple and green have some utility at 4 covers like mine - they can clear CDs. I'd been using Jean, 3Clops, and *filler* until I swapped that for SWitch.

    You might get some traction with Strang3, Jean, and SWitch like Wolfspwn said, at least against goons. 3/4Clops versus non-goon nodes works well too. I'm not so sure your Jean is prepped to handle the full DA groups, and I can't say how Strang3 fares.

    I'd consider respec'ing Beast to 5/5/3 and using him for his quick blue and AoE with 3Clops and maybe MoStorm from the current boosted. There's nothing with an incredible amount of synergy here though. It's been a health pack sink for me all event, too. Makes me really miss my boosted champed Star-Lord...
  • ClydeFrog76
    ClydeFrog76 Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
    I could quite easily hit top 100 but...I don't think I cbf. I really don't need another one cover 4* on my roster, especially as I'm only hitting Sim for the big ISO rewards and two 5CP progs.

    And, really, he just looks meh.